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  • AA/Machine gun wish list v5.31 - Continously updateing!

    04. 22. 2010 15:30 PST

Arthur_Suen
Proposition of this suggestion:
adding several AA guns that did exist onboard warships in game but did not have
corrisponding gun that can be load and use by players.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Latest update (v5.31): Q&A section included in this cover post


whole suggestion is revised and simplefied by
replan the sequences.
Photos is resized to help reading the whole suggestion.
New photos added
Prototype list of in game gun specs. (space,weight etc.) added by RSX1 :D
Prototype Graph of Gun range base on RSX1 ideas is added

Next Update : Including a prototype idea of "prem AA gun"
includes some issues that was asked by players which haven't
talk about before in new section "Q&A"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
index:
comparison of KM Flak 38 and UK 2pdr in details -> page 3 [by rockmansuen]
comparison of KM:US & US/UK AA gun range -> see response to Jahmal Q.
Prototype list of In game gun specs. -> page 3 [by RSX1]
suggested range of different nation new AA gun -> page 4
[Supported by Rockmansuen and RSX1]
Q&A: response to Jahmal problems -> page 4
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q&A sections:
-> previously asked
- how about adding a Y slots specially for the AAW gunner and machine gun?
-A : that is a NO NO,athough it is good but will invloves of whole game system
to be altered.
- About the US AA gunners:
-A : well apparently it need adjustments also the Type A gun, details in Page 4


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I aren't a pro in these but just hope this would have given a opprotunity for
us to play our game with a wider range of choices,

Adding this gun sure might make lags if many players spray these shell to the sky,
but look at the bright side,

-> it does give another option for Close to mid range AA option
-> give another option for beginner~junior players to have a better (well maybe)
guns that have a higher % to hit planes within in ranges
-> solutions for ships that have small secondary weapon slot to load AA guns
-> Better way out for the beginner FF~CL's, giving them a solution that they can
be 'combat-effective' rather than 'rush and die' 'blocking Capital ships' in GB/GBII

i'm expecting negative comment to this, but please, i'll be glad to see
some comments that state why it is not a good idea to put it in to the game.

[remarks: photos are found from navweaps.com and wikipedia]
___________________________________________________________________
Well as we all know, before the KM SS4 comes out with it 'overpowered' flak38 quad,
there only the pompoms is the guns that smaller than 3" with AA ability,
but after the flak38 comes out [but before French comes out too],
than i start to think :
Now we got 2 existing AA/machine guns that is way smaller than a 3",
but meanwhile they sometimes can be seen onboard a ship structure,
why not making all these AA/machine guns that we can see in the game to come to
service?

As i said above and another post in this section did talk about,
like the USN, it isn't hard to find a 4x40mm bofors onboard a ship,
but all we can do is "watch it in the shipyard,look how it firing meaningless Auto AA
to the sky and not hitting a darn plane"

So, then i look up the web and bunch of history books about weapons,
then i got this list of AA's that maybe ideal to add to game,
Which is merged with Mattmaster56 ideas and comments given:

Japan - Suckish AA, good luck to those fellas. | Comments by Mattmaster56
------------------------------
1x 25mm lvl 14 Arm Sailor
2x 25mm lvl 22 AA Gunner
photos of the 2x25mm type 98 model 2:


3x 25mm lvl 29 AA Gunner
photos of the 3x25mm type 98 model 2:


*Pfft not even a prototype.
------------------------------
Kriegsmarine - Better AA than Japan but still lacking. |by Mattmaster56

1x 20mm lvl 12 Arm Sailor
1x 3.7 cm/69 (1.5") M42 lvl 20 AA Gunner
photos of the 3.7 cm/69 single:


4x 20mm Flakvierling lvl 28 AA Gunner
photos of the 20mm Flakvierling 38:


2x 3.7 cm/69 (1.5") M42 lvl 26 AA Gunner
------------------------------
United Kingdom - Plenty of options, they shall do quite well. |by Mattmaster56

1x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 12 Arm Sailor
1x 40mm Bofors lvl 18 Arm Sailor
2x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 18 Arm Sailor
4x 2 pdr Pom-Pom lvl 24 AA Gunner
photos of the 2pdr. Mark VII quad:


2x 40mm Bofors lvl 26 AA Gunner
8x 2 pdr Pom-Pom lvl 42 AA Gunner <---------- Reduced lvl
4x 40mm Bofors lvl 44 AA Gunner

* Judging by the UK forum it seems the UK will be at a disadvantage
if they class their sailor to AA gunner too soon because it will decrease
their effectiveness with larger caliber guns...oh well.
[My quote: well acutally UK AA gunners if not delay class until lv80 it is almost...]
------------------------------
French MN - Good options,
especially for cruisers since they have a lot of t slots.|by Mattmaster56

1x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 12 Arm Sailor
1x 40mm Bofors lvl 18 Arm Sailor
2x 37 mm/70 (1.46") AA Gun Model 1935 lvl 24 AA Gunner <--------------- Prototype
2x 40mm Bofors lvl 26 AA Gunner
4x 40mm Bofors lvl 44 AA Gunner

*Also there was a land based aa gun called the 25mm Hotchkiss, never used in
the navy but had France not been defeated so quick in the war maybe there would
have been a naval versions as well
------------------------------
United States - Best AA evah! I have nothing more to say.|by Mattmaster56

1x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 12 Arm Sailor
1x 40mm Bofors lvl 18 AA Gunner
2x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 18 Arm Sailor
4x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 28 AA Gunner
2x 40mm Bofors lvl 26 AA Gunner
photos of dual bofors:


4x 1.1"/75 (28 mm) Mark 1 and Mark 2 lvl 34 AA Gunner

4x 40mm Bofors lvl 44 AA Gunner
photos of Quad bofors:

*Like I said nothing more to say.
------------------------------
Mattmaster56 comment on Guns cal. :
Anything smaller than 20mm is ineffective in my opinion which is why I didn't include
the japanese and french 13mm AA Guns.

What would also be great is if they added a few extra slots that can only hold these
smaller aa guns since quite a few certain ships lack enought slots for effective aa
such as the bismarck. Also none of these should ever have HE added or we're
screwed.

  Index

  • Re : AA/Machine gun wish list v4.5 - Continously updateing!

    04. 24. 2010 10:33 PST

Mattmaster56
Balancing seems hard to do, personally imo they should be based on the rl aa per
nation where the Japan AA simply sucked and the US AA was the best of all nations.

Though maybe it can be like this

--------------------------------------------

Japan - Advantage: fast turning, loads of ammo

Well the 25mm AA is obviously better than the usual 20mm you see in other nations
but not as good enough hitting power as compared to the US bofors or Kriegsmarine
3.7cm AA Guns.

So the 25mm should be Medium ranged, fast firing, fast reloading, loads of ammo,
good hitting power.

--------------------------------------------

Kriegsmarine - Advantage: specialize in fast firing

20mm - The 20mm guns are basically similar to the Oerlikon with the only difference I
can see is that it had a shorter magazine, but it should have a quicker reload rate
since it uses a smaller magazine which is quicker to handle than the drum magazine
of the Oerlikon.

So 20mm should be short ranged, fast rate of fire, very fast reloading, loads of
ammo, weak hitting power.

37mm - This was somewhat similar to the bofors but it has its differences. The 37mm
AA had a incredibly fast rate of fire than that of the bofors but its disadvantage was
that it had less range than the bofors but it still had much more range than the
20mm. The 37mm also had a similar feeding mechanism to the bofors so the reload
rate is excellent. The only real limit of this gun was that there was only single and
dual mounts in WW2, a quad mount was never planned.

So 37mm should be medium-long range, excellent rate of fire, fast reload rate,
strong hitting power.

--------------------------------------------

United Kingdom - ????

2pdr Pom Pom - Pom Pom guns were relatively short ranged, quite heavy, good rate
of fire, INCREDIBLY SLOW RELOAD RATE, and weak hitting power. The only Pom pom
gun that I can imgaine you would want on your ship would be the octuple version.
the rest are easily beaten by the bofors guns. None the less it is still a better gun
than those of other nations, poor germans get 20mm quad flakvierling but you can
use the uber 40mm quad pom pom guns muahahaha.

So Pom Pom guns are short-medium ranged, avg rate of firing, Very slow reload
rate, weak hitting power.

--------------------------------------------

French MN - Advantage : ???

37 mm/70 (1.46") AA Gun Model 1935 - This is basically a downgraded bofors, good
rate of fire, has a fast feeding mechanism so there is no problem with the reload
rate, good hitting power, the only problems with this gun is that it had a significantly
shorter range than the bofors another minor problem is there was only a dual mount
prototype made so no quad or single mounts however there was a quad mount
planned which would probably have been made if france didn't surrender. This is gun
is only good when you dont have the option to use the bofors yet but once you do
reach the dual bofors this gun will be quickly forgotten.
So 37mm aa guns are medium-long ranged, good rate of fire, fast reload rate,
strong hitting power.

--------------------------------------------

United States - Advantage: Long range AA.

20mm Oerlikon - Well in simple this is a good gun, similar to germany's 20mm this
gun had a good rate of fire, somewhat slower reload rate because of the heavy
drum magazine which is pretty much its only disadvantege compared to the german
20mm but becuase of the drum it holds more ammo.

So the Oerlikon guns are short ranged, fast rate of fire, avg reloading, loads of
ammo, weak hitting power.

28mm - This gun is comparable to the Japanese 25mm but the advantage is that it
was a quad and thus carried one more gun than Japans triple 25mm but the guns
were bunched so close together that it was quite crowded and was hard to reload
the guns.

So the 28mm guns are medium ranged, good rate of fire, slow reload, good hitting
power.

Bofors - Obviously the best AA gun of WWII, it had a good rate of fire, good reload
rate because of the feeding mechanism and has longer range than any of the AA
guns in WW2. The only gun that can challenge its awesomeness would be the
Kriegsmarine 3.7cm M42 and its incredibly fast rate of fire..

So the 40mm bofors guns are long range, good rate of fire, fast reload reload rate,
strong hitting power.

--------------------------------------------

  • Re : AA/Machine gun wish list v4.5 - Continously updateing!

    04. 24. 2010 06:09 PST

Arthur_Suen
@RSX1
Good question, as far as i know both existing Machine Guns (pom pom, flak 38 quad)
shells offensive power is about 8~20 per shells, afterall most gun now on the list
were almost all under 3", which is 'kind of weak' compare to all others AA gun that is
3" or higher, so maybe the following options will solve your question:

-> Option 1: set all machine guns shells about the same atk per shell from 8~20,
But depends on their nation and turrents per gun, the spread of shells,range and
the Accuacy will varies

-> Option 2: upon nations,shells cal. ,shells velocity... etc. , to set their offensive
power of the shells and ranges

Why i didn't talk about the rld time was because i estimate that SDE set guns reload
time by calculating 'round per minute /60 = time taken to fire 1 shell' , and afterall, it
is not really within our ability to set the range,acc. and rld... etc. for these guns, it is
totally upon the dev. team, correct me if i'm wrong.

But afterall, glad to have your comments and reminding something that i forgot to
talk about in this thread, thank you very much :D

___________________________________________
Since now got more math stuff need to work on for this thread, maybe i'll hold on
the update for now and make the v5 tomorrow, looking forward to see more guys to
comment on this thread or support if you like this idea.
See you mates later

  • Re : AA/Machine gun wish list v4.5 - Continously updateing!

    04. 24. 2010 05:47 PST

RSX1
How would these guns be balanced by there natinal AA strengh. Would the IJN have
long range, would the USN guns have a high shell damage and so on. Oh and just a
thought but if these guns acc+reload was based on the sailors AAW stat maybe it
would convince USN/UK/IJN/MN players to class there sailors as soon as possable.

  • Re : Some AA/Machine gun wish list

    04. 24. 2010 02:30 PST

Thorgun
I've been tossing this idea around in my head in one form or another for the better part
of four years... You lot have put it into words perfectly.

Recc + Bump.

  • Re : Some AA/Machine gun wish list

    04. 23. 2010 15:33 PST

Arthur_Suen
@Mattmaster56
I don't know what i should say to express of my thankfulness to your continous and
valuable support matt ,i'll put your list of suggestions together right after i finish my
bloody group assignment, and although maybe not necessary for me to do,i'll start
to calculate the reload time for each gun base on their RoF to let all of us to at least
know how it works in game.

Once again, It is my Honour to have your valuable support :D

  • Re : Some AA/Machine gun wish list

    04. 23. 2010 13:04 PST

Mattmaster56
Heres my idea of the AA per nation. Would be great for DDs and FFs IN GB and GB2
against enemy aircraft, would be a good role for them besides anti-submarine work
and they dont have to go out into the middle of the field to get pwned by bbs as
well. Also good for those BBs that cant mount effective large calibre guns. Ya they
are pretty good for anything that cant mount effective large caliber AA guns but if
you want to put those t slots to good use then small rapid fire AA Guns are the way
to go.

------------------------------

Japan - Suckish AA, good luck to those fellas.

1x 25mm lvl 14 Arm Sailor
2x 25mm lvl 22 AA Gunner
3x 25mm lvl 29 AA Gunner

*Pfft not even a prototype.

------------------------------

Kriegsmarine - Better AA than Japan but still lacking.

1x 20mm lvl 12 Arm Sailor
1x 3.7 cm/69 (1.5") M42 lvl 18 AA GUnner
4x 20mm Flakvierling lvl 28 AA Gunner
2x 3.7 cm/69 (1.5") M42 lvl 26 AA Gunner

*Also there was a 5.5cm rapid fire anti-aircraft gun in prototype stage that would
supposedly be mounted in single, dual, and quad mounts.

------------------------------

United Kingdom - Plenty of options, they shall do quite well.

1x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 12 Arm Sailor
1x 40mm Bofors lvl 18 Arm Sailor
2x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 18 Arm Sailor
4x 2 pdr Pom-Pom lvl 24 AA Gunner
2x 40mm Bofors lvl 26 AA Gunner
8x 2 pdr Pom-Pom lvl 42 AA Gunner <---------- Reduced lvl
4x 40mm Bofors lvl 44 AA Gunner

* Judging by the UK forum it seems the UK will be at a disadvantage
if they class their sailor to AA gunner too soon because it will decrease
their effectiveness with larger caliber guns...oh well.

------------------------------

French MN - Good options, especially for cruisers since they have a lot of t slots.

1x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 12 Arm Sailor
1x 40mm Bofors lvl 18 Arm Sailor
2x 37 mm/70 (1.46") AA Gun Model 1935 lvl 24 AA Gunner <--------------- Prototype
2x 40mm Bofors lvl 26 AA Gunner
4x 40mm Bofors lvl 44 AA Gunner

*Also there was a land based aa gun called the 25mm Hotchkiss, never used in
the navy but had France not been defeated so quick in the war maybe there would
have been a naval versions as well

------------------------------

United States - Best AA evah! I have nothing more to say.

1x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 12 Arm Sailor
1x 40mm Bofors lvl 18 AA Gunner
2x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 18 Arm Sailor
4x 20mm Oerlikon lvl 28 AA Gunner
2x 40mm Bofors lvl 26 AA Gunner
4x 1.1"/75 (28 mm) Mark 1 and Mark 2 lvl 34 AA Gunner
4x 40mm Bofors lvl 44 AA Gunner

*Like I said nothing more to say.

------------------------------

Anything smaller than 20mm is ineffective in my opinion which is why I didn't include
the japanese and french 13mm AA Guns.

What would also be great is if they added a few extra slots that can only hold these
smaller aa guns since quite a few certain ships lack enought slots for effective aa
such as the bismarck. Also none of these should ever have HE added or we're
screwed.

  • Re : Some AA/Machine gun wish list

    04. 23. 2010 02:18 PST

Arthur_Suen
@LePointblank
well i think this is totally off track of "adding new AA guns" but
"adding new AAW slot and AAW system" , maybe you'll want to open a thread for
your idea, it looks cool but well eh... as i said is off track of this thread mate.

why i intent to wrote this thread and state that it maybe a solution to ships which
lack of spaces in their secondary weapon slot was because some ships like the IJN
Cv's they got very little T slot spaces to barely load a single turrent to defense for
nothing, where a "machine" AA gun that take a spaces like the pom poms does
would be a better solution to them, and my main idea was "adding these machine
AA guns" , hope you understand what i mean mate, but once again thanks for your
idea and support :D

  • Re : Some AA/Machine gun wish list

    04. 23. 2010 01:49 PST

LePointblank
How about another refinement of this idea; for all ships we add an additional 2 slots on
the ship itself. Those two slots will only take AA gunners and you can on the sidebar
where you buy/sell ships and armour them, add button where you can select AAW upgrades to
your ship. The higher the level of the ability and the sailors levels, the more accurate
the guns get against airplanes up close. While having zero AA gunners will not result in
no AAW, it means that there will be very little of it, and it will be wildly inaccurate.

When you enter that screen, it will tell you how many AAW gun slots there are on your
ship, and from there, you can upgrade the AAW guns on your ship. All ships will come with
the basic AAW gun that doesn't do much damage or have much in the way of range (such for
RN, the Vickers .50 machine gun, and for the USN, M2 Browning machine gun). The gun
improvements will increase AAW firepower and range (say from 2cm around the ship with
original AAW guns to the final level of say, 6cm).

To accommodate for all of this, the max displacement can be increased by a small
percentage, or the normal displacement can be decreased by a percentage so the gunners and
AAW guns can be accommodated.

  • Re : Some AA/Machine gun wish list

    04. 23. 2010 00:23 PST

SpectreHD
Nice research and suggestion. Recommended.

  • Re : Some AA/Machine gun wish list

    04. 22. 2010 23:21 PST

Arthur_Suen
@ne3o
What else i can say except a very thanks :D?

-----------------------------
4th update with more new potential choice and photo links are added
please comment and recc. if you like this suggestion,very very thanks for your
support!

and want to ask, how to post photos directly in the thread -.-?
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