@vick11: that would be a great system. That way, sailors that are loaned cannot be traded
off the account. Something like the yellow starter sailors. Would leave minimal damage if
an account is accessed by anyone other than the owner.

Missed you wanted an answer on that one really, thought it was more expressing an opinion
rather than seeking a response from me. The issue of the thread is loaned sailors that
has grown in to sailors being taken. I think the first is quite clear and not under
dispute. The second one is a question of genuine hack or whether there has been any
account sharing that may have lead to the loss. In the first instance, totally no sharing
and evidence of a hack then we would look to recover or replace items. In the second case
where there has been account sharing then that has to be the individual's responsibility
and it would be unfair to remove items from players who innocently bought them.

The introduction of a formal, secure, recoverable loan system has been passed up before
and discussed at the Dev level. The GMs are going to chase it up and see if it is on the
workflows in any form for the future.

Thanks for replying vick, your response to my post. . sorry lack off reply makes me even
more disappointed in TNF.

Champion - a long time ago now I did ask about introducing a loan system for the game
whereby you would be able to give a loan and have the power to pull it back to your own
account at anytime the other player was offline. I will ask if that ever got further
consideration or whether it is sat low on a priority list somewhere. Having some
background on the mechanics, I would not be surprised if it is in the 'too difficult' box
for the current game engine, but I will ask again anyway.

While I agree it shouldnt occur in the first place tom, the fact is, it does. I suppose you
have friends, and if thats true, I suppose you have items that they like to borrow. Now
lets say that your friends house was broken into last week and a police report was filed
but nobody was 'caught'. Your friend asks to borrow your ladder so he can move some
things to the attic.

Assuming all has been said and done, the thief comes back, breaks in once more and
steals the ladder and some of your friends items as well. This time, the security cameras
catch the thief and the police hold him for a day. In this time you find out the thief sold all
of the items including your ladder to people. These people are aware the items are stolen
and proof is obtained as such. But what happens here is that the cops cant make the thief
give back the money and because nothing can be done about the sailors, why even give
the thief a penalty. Being friends with the captain of the police force helps and
subsequently, the thief is let go after the initial day or two.

You are out of a ladder, your friends daughter is knocked up, his dog is kicked, 20k worth
of electronics equipment is stolen and they got away in his car. But everything is okay
because the police give you a pat on the back and say better luck next time. Honestly,
your house isnt private property, it belongs to the city anyways, even if you pay for
everything in it.

This brings me to the next point where those in the neighborhood who agree with the
cops but have never had any issues of the sort with their own property tend to side with
them until it happens to them. Then again if they are friends with one of the cops there
will be nothing to worry about. :) In any case, its always best to have a private chat with
the police chiefs if the captain does not work. Its usually best not to send a complaint
through the police 'ticket' system if you dont want it to be intercepted.

So remember, keep your houses locked, no friends allowed, dont let anyone have
anything belonging to you and I dare say do not speak to anyone including your friends
because it can and will be held against you. You can pay for it and have it on your own
account but at the end of the day nothing is really yours unless you stonewall yourself.

Wasnt always this way, much respect to former officer greenglade :P who helped me with
a very similar case long ago and did what was right. I got lucky I suppose, havent had it
happen since, but anyone else who has it happen to them now, you are SOL.

As for an earlier post in this thread, any fleet leaders wanting to inform their members of
those involved, just get in contact with me via PM here on these forums. To all those
interested, BS has in the past set up a fleets helping fleets sort of thing that warns fleets
of any potential threats. If anyone is interested in being a part of this system just
message sindher in game or here on the forums. Only requirement is that you must be
an official or the leader for your fleet.

Thanks vick for posting that again to remind people of it.

As for people complaining that they have been "hacked":
But the problem is that people will ALWAYS continue to share their accounts/passwords - and
that causes the troubles. The only way to stop this is to restrict accounts to one IP which causes
trouble with players using dynamic-IPs (like me) - and of course, noone wants to do that.

Combined with some players lying about what happened or "forgetting" that they priorly shared
their
account/password - it creates enourmous workload for TNF/SDE to find out what really happened.
Sadly, in almost every case, it was the victims own fault - the only cases I remember while beeing
a
mod where the victim was unblamable were cases where the hacker was in the same internet-cafe
and somehow getting the passwords via hardware-manipulating and cases where the password
was
simply too easy to guess.
Of couse theres people buying stolen sailors but I am talking about the first step (sailors get
stolen)
here, not about what happens next with those unmarked stolen sailors.

@Charles87

I'm sorry charles but this is true and bull at the same time.

A while back someones crew's were stolen twice (will not name names) and when the crews
were returned the person/s who stole the crews were given a 'permenant ban'. Now, permenant
in the eyes of TNF/SDE is 6 months to a year max as the players who were supposedly
permenantly banned started playing again under the SAME USERNAMES and all of their BOs and
crews were still on their accounts.

TNF/SDE is NOT the middle men, TNF/SDE are the people who implement the LAW of the game.
To put it another way you are the police of the game. In RL if this was to happen (say I
loaned my MP3 player to a close friend, it was stolen and sold to an 'honest person') the
MP3 player WOULD be returned by the police and the 'honest person' would not be refunded.
In NF, and in one such case that happened recently the 'honest person' was offered their
credits back in full for the return of stolen goods and replied by offering only ONE
stolen sailor back.

I'm sorry but as the enforcer of the laws of this game the stolen sailors SHOULD be
returned to their rightful owner and the 'honest person' refunded their credits. Even
forcibly by TNF as that is the right thing to do.

By saying 'we are not going to force someone to give sailors we know are stolen back to
their rightful owner' is TNF/SDEs way of dodging a touchy issue. However by taking this
course of action it will make more people feel let down/disappointed in SDE/TNF compared
to the right thing to do, since they are basically saying 'its your fault, we want nothing
to do with it'.

No matter how you want to attempt to word it, the above is exactly what you are saying.

Question: There are shared accounts in TNF, if a crew/sailors were stolen and the same
thing happened that has in recent cases would they be forcibly returned?

V2- Yes, yes, and yes to your above questions.

Despite my burning desire to make e-life in this game a living hell for these people, I
will refrain. This means I do not think that it would be appropriate for me to PM you and
send you names and such. The only reason details of this issue has been posted has been
to refute blatant lies and inaccuracies which were posted in order to set the record
straight. Perhaps reading this thread once more will provide the solutions that you seek. ;)

PS. No disrespect, but this is in essence a green light for fleets to try to find
vulnerabilities in other fleets by finding "shared accounts" and to try to do everything
they can to compromise other accounts right before HA/FL to disrupt the other team since
people now have official word that such sailors cannot be forcefully recovered. That in
essence such an action is okay and legitimate.

And finally for revisiting the issue- To the person concerned. You have made the
suggestion of what to do with the sailors in question. The person(owner) still wants his
crew back. Please place it back on the account it was stolen from like you've suggested,
you get your credits that you paid for and we are done with this.

Twisting what? Two guys got extremely lucky and an honest, genuine player got shafted. What makes it more of a
joke is that the guys who got banned were running around free the next day. I don't care if somebody has the
password to your account, it's doesn't mean they have permission to take stuff. This could have been solved within
days if TNF pulled their fingers out.

Not at all Sindher, but nice try on twisting it. If there is a genuine hack of an account
that has not been shared in any way, then we will provide all assistance necessary -
irrespective of how the subsequent trades occurred.