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  • Submarine & ASW Tips from Starluck Revised Feb 20th

    02. 12. 2010 17:37

Starluck
There can be only one? SS-Superstar!

I thought I might try and speed up the learning curve for SS, ASW, and HH players?

ASW - Anti Submarine Warfare

Weap .ons = Depth Charges, Hedge Hogs and Torps
Updates = Recent patches to game has incresed reload rates on the HH
(Hedge Hogs are much more effective weapon, I have even seen HH used effectively
against small FF, DD and CL class ships.)


Tactics:

ASW ships should stay between friendly submarines and the battleships on our
frontlines. The reason for this is because you provide an additional layer of sonar
detection, and act as a decoy target for enemy battleships. In addition if you wait
behind freindly SS you will gain benefit from the submarines sonar. Since your just
watching, waiting and observing you should be prepared to fire accurate hedge
hogs at a dinstance once submarine is spotted.

If you try and rush the enemey you will either be shot be enemy bb, die from
incoming torp wall, destroyed by enemy SS, or worst case you get near or between
friendly SS engaged in SS v SS combat and die as a result of friendly fire. There is no
room to be greedy in submarine combat. NEVER GET BETWEEN 2 SUBS EGNAGED IN
COMBAT.

Once your teammate has engaged the enemy submarine, this is when you have to
make your decision to move in. Watch the battle for an opening, ask in teammates if
your teammate wants you to come in and assist. If your teammate dies, you뭨e clear
to seek and destroy enemy submarine. If teammate calls you off, stay near and
ready but don뭪 get near enemy submarine. If your teammate wins the ss v ss
battle then good for them. Play outside these parameters and you will be
unsuccessful overall.

PS... For those of you who disagree with this being the only method for ASW warfare
then answer these question:

What do you do, or how do you feel when you join a room with 20 ships, zero SS,
your ASW, and the host launches game?

What do you do, how do you score exp if your in a battle without any subs? Why
would anyone every build a ship that doesnt have main guns, main AA guns. Imagin
trying to be an AA ship playing in Great Battles without any air craft carriers?

Why would any ASW ship ever rush the enemy unless you want to score some quick
damage, die, and start next battle, and repeat... Also know as Power LvL'ing?
Similar to a TW tactics? If your an ASW ship and you rush enemy and get between
me and a sub, your fair game and I refuse to hold back torps when im fighting
enemy SS in my submarine unless the player communicates with me in team chat.

Additional Facts: FF, DD, & CL have automatic sonar ability; use of sonar man
expands the range and effectiveness of the sonar.

Any Ship Bigger then a CL DOES NOT HAVE SONAR ABILITY EVEN WITH A
SONARMAN. I personally believe this needs to be changed allowing any ship to carry
sonar man, but if they do this SS will be increasingly vulnerable. If any ship can
carry sonar man, then I believe the SS뭩 ability to dive and emergency dive needs to
be speeded up. As is, nearly impossible to emergency dive against HH if you don뭪
press the button while the HH bullets are in the air.

Tip: Any torp, including the weak FF neutral torps do significant damage to
submarines.

Best ASW Setup = Any ship carrying both torps and depth charges or Hedge Hogs
as well as main guns utilizing R & T mounts to the super star level. I personally carry
depth charges on my left side, and torps on my right and rear of my FF. I use the
pneumonic rhyme, 밨ight to Torp?to remember which side has torps and which side
has depth charges. This requires manual fire, if you don뭪 know how to use manual,
then you got worse problems then learning how to master ASW warfare.

Hedge Hodges = Depth Charges that you can fire at a distance doing less damage
then depth charges with a new faster reload speed as of Feb 2010.

Tactics = Every ASW ship should be carrying hedgehogs since the new patch in
February 2010. Those ships which carry hedge hogs often fire warning shots, or
distance gauging shots giving submarine players some ability
to anticipate an attack. As HH become utilized players will aquire skill and will
eliminate this warning shot.

Against a skilled veteran submarine wait for the enemy submarine to dive,
emergency dive, or surface prior planning to fire the kill shot. If you fire HH while
submarine is under a crititcal dive you force the submarine to continue to remain
submerge often beyond the time it takes your ammo to detonate. Submarines can
only do one of these three moves every three seconds at fastest rate possible
regardless of the visual appearance in game.


Escort Ships:

The use of an Escort Ship can help expand the sonar detection or Sonar Net of your
Fleet. The only problem is everything else with an Escort Ship. They never fire at a
submerged submarine, almost never hit enemy ships, and do occasionly shoot down
a plane if your using an AA Escort Ship Design. In addition the Escort Ship is
constantly trying to 360 Degree circle around your ship contantly crossing your ship,
and blocking your LOS. I recommend the use of either an FF or an AA Escort Ship.
The FF frequently dodges torps simply because it is so small, anything bigger then a
FF has almost no chance of evadig incoming torp wall... I consider escort ships a
must for any BB or CV because you can spot the sub and simply drive away.

CL's, CA's, BB's & CV's: Scout Plane Defensive Tactics:

Scout planes are extremly effective at dropping mines from the air. These mines
require that 8 seconds pass before an enemy ship comes within activation range. If
enemy ship gets near mine during 6 second count down timer that you will see on
each mine.. if this happen the mine is deactivated.

Wait till you notice the SS is basically on a straight path, espcially if its chasing you
and your high tailing it out of there. Drop your mines a considerable distance in
front of the SS estimating its speed and the time you think it will take for the SS to
reach your drop zone. This requires practise. Watch the shadow of your plane to
tell where your drop will be. Your shadow is your X marks the spot on the water.
Even plash damage from these mines will do up to 3k damage to enemy submarine.
Ive sunk over 10 using this method out of 15 attempts...

Submarines

Tactics = The most important thing to do in a submarine is manage your air supply.
If you rush out on the front lines you are already giving your position away so try
and dodge bullets, anticipate auto FCS by constantly moving the tip of your sub left
and right. This will prevent anyone other then manual fire and control to hit you. If
you can reach their frontlines prior to diving then you have 100% of your airs supply
to start sinking enemy ships with. The dangers to this tactic require the ability to
dodge incoming torp walls, torp bombers, battle ships fire, hedgehogs, and ASW
rushing ships.

Revised Upate Feb 2010:

Navy Field in their infant wisdom has increased the reload speed for the hedge
hogs. It seems the hedge hogs are now everywhere, but the reality is that with the
change in server, release of the three new nations, release of the flak submarine
has created an increase in the number of players per battle. Frequently the
numbers per battle rise above 64 players. This means more DDs and CLs.
Increased reload rate means more HH players. This is all bad for the submarine
player who likes an easy victory.

Solution:

The solution is simple, everything else I have stated remains unchanged. However
now all submarine players must HOLD THE LINE. You hold the line by prevent any
fast rushing ships or submarines to penitrate the front lines. Subs will now provide
teh sonar detection that other ships desperatly need in order to be effective at
ranged HH attack. Once the frontlines have full engaged usually 2 or 3 minutes, the
submarine player should be able to spot weaknesses and gaps in ASW protection
on enemy side. Half or more of all the ASW players will be rushers trying to power
lvl. Once their all dead early in battle proceed to attack approach enemy but
ALWAYS BE READY WITH YOUR FINGER ON THE CRITICAL DIVE BUTTON.

TIP: If you have the flak submarine but are not using the gunner slot, then it wont
be long before you will be using it.. find your gunners now!

If I destroy all the enemy submarines early on front lines I retreat to repair and
regain air supply. No reason to commit suicide after a few successful kills. I might
even get the chance to defend friendly CV or BB late in battle.

Guide Lines block submarine뭩 view. I don뭪 care who you are this has happened to
you. The way to solve this problem requires that you Press F6 twice. The first time
you press F6 you permanently remove the guidelines. You don뭪 want this. Press F6
twice and whenever you try and maneuver your ship-using keyboard the guide lines
will re appear. It will not take long to develop the skill using your sub without the
guidelines. This is an absolute must.

Change Default Dive and Emergency Dive from U & I to U & O. If you haven뭪
pressed the wrong button yet, you will. Change it now before you develop muscle
memory that will cause your inglorious death.

Max Range Warfare = If your not engaging enemey submarines and ships at max
range then you don뭪 know how to drive your ship. Enemy ships cannot dodge or
evade a torp exploding at max range. Torps do more damage at max range. The
only time I do not engage a ship at max range are against very fast moving ships.
There are no duds or failed detonations at max range.

Invisibility = As you develop your submarine crew you will notice how other subs
seem invisible to you, maybe the will even blink on/off on your screen. Keep this in
mind always. If your submerged and the enemy are not, then they do not see you
at all at long range. You can fire torps on slow at long range and then emergency
dive as the enemy does, and the enemy will never even see you. You must have
good repair rate for this tactic. Do not emerge from emergency dive until you see an
opening in the sporadic movements of the enemy fighting invisible sub.

What to do if you get spotted by a FF, DD, or CL?

Just do an emergency dive and you will kill the LOS of all ships and sonar. Emerge
right away and continue knowing that you just temporilly invisible until enemy sonar
pick you back up. This works very well.

Always, ALWAYS destroy the spotter before you attack a larger target. This means
dont torp the BB when there is a CL right there spotting you, and is in range.
Many submarine players rush out on a straight line from their starting points until
something forces them to change from straight line. This is a perfect time to use the
invisibility tactic against these straight-line rushers. This might even work against
me.

Lead the Dog = To sink enemy ship you first want to lead the ship on slow at max
range. This gives the ship a chance to evade without you wasting all your torps. If
the ship doesn뭪 seem to do anything then fire off one or two more torps on fast. If
the ship still doesn뭪 evade then continue to fire away.

Wait for the BBs to make a turn or cut with their ship. When they do this they
revert back to their Gunners LOS for the next few seconds. You have increased
chance to fire successfull attack without the enemey noticing your assault.

If you lead ship on slow max range the ship will normal turn into you where fast
torps will take them out. Never fire all your torps at once. Never fire at a bb rushing
the opposite direction at max speed. If you do you waste torps and give your
posistion away.


PS... If you attack any ship other then the spotter first, given that the spotter is in
range, and you do this knowingly violating my rule here, then again I don't care who
you are you will be less successful overall. I can't describe every possible scenerio
where the end results will prove im right... learn for yourselves the hard way...


SS v SS COMBAT

= Never Fire All Your Torps At Once. The first torp you fire should always be on
slow at max range unless your playing invisibility tactic. From this point you can fire
a second or 3rd torp as you emergency dive. You should always, ALWAYS have at
least one more torp ready to fire as you emerge from emergency dive or again your
messing up. Do not expect your sailors to out perform the enemy. You Command &
Control Your Ship not your crewmen.

Dodging Torps = Turn your ship directly into the oncoming torp as if you want the tip
of your sub to hit the torp, but you don뭪 hit it. Also, if you surface and 밫ip 2 Torp?
tactics increases your chance to dodge. This should only be done as a last resort
when you know you have no other options but to dodge incoming torps. This tactic
should only be required once you in close range combat.

Dodging TB's = Simply kill your engines, reduce speed to zero and you will dodge
TB's 85% ore more of the time, this is a proven method...

Seamen = Seamen seem to be my preferred support crewmen for submarine. I
want NF to allow seamen to man the guns on submarine. Why would a submarine
have a gunner specific crew that has no multipurpose role?

Air Supply: 밄oBBing?

You can submerge and surface every three seconds. The reload time on most BBs is
greater then six seconds. If the BBs are not block shooting you should be able to
dodge the BBs and count their reload time. What I do is submerge with 100% after
I have taken a couple thousand in damage; this gives my repairmen something to
do. There after I emerge every 3 to 5 seconds. If I am able to watch the BB
attacking me, I wait for it to choose between waiting on a submarine with 100% air
to surface or target on something else. This is about 5-8 seconds. If you wait 8
seconds or longer to emerge then you should have a good 5 seconds before you
have to submerge again. The goal is to get as close to the enemy as possible with
as much air as possible and maintain 50-75% DP. If you reach their frontlines with
50% DP but 100% air, you will do massive damage to enemy fleet.


Air Supply: 밯ounding Duckling 뱋r 밆uckling?


If you can plan it this is great, if it just happens then so be it. The goal here is to
significantly wound enemy ship then surface near it forcing the opposing team to
choose between TK뭝ng their hopeless teammate or allowing the enemy sub to
gather fresh air. I see nothing wrong with this tactic; I enjoy it as a matter of fact.
D/C only ASW ships, TWs, and CVs with no armaments are the best to use this tactic
against.

Air Supply: 밅loudy Skies? -

Use the clouds to gain air, you뭨e hard enough to hit without being hidden from a
cloud.

Priotiry Targets: Always, Always, Always destroy the FF, DD, OR CL first, because
they are spotting you allowing all ships to simply drive away. Even if a BB or CV is
right there, destroy the spotter first. The only exception to this rule would be if your
severly damage, out of air, and your ready to be sunk.

Promotions: The only time I ever attempt to promote 10 Experts to Veterans
is when the following parameters are met. When I do try and promote I attempt it
once and once only.

Parameters: Win the Battle, Do Not Sink, and the Crewmen has Leveled Up.


As a result of this rule I place upon myself, all my crewmen have capped out their
potential bars. I cant even strip my lvl 90 gunners of green units and place them on
my SS3 because they are so heavy. All of my crewmen have between 60 ?100
Veterans and less then 70 green units for my lvl 95-100 crewmen. This includes my
neutral FF crew, SS3, CV5 and P Project II KM Battleship.

Elite Sailors: I leveled up all the original crewmen with yellow names which
can뭪 be traded but have excellent stats, as well as additional support sailors along
three different ship paths, SS, BB, CV. The only elite or boasted sailor I have is my
Planesmen. I named it MiracleMan. I can do this and prosper in game because of
my rule regarding when to promote.


Develop these skills as well as your own to become your own superstar, but
because of the NF rules there can be only one ship with any given name. My claim
to fame is the name of my submarine, the?


Tip of the week: #1

HOW TO GRAB 3-5 SECONDS OF AIR

The key issue for most all submarine commanders is how to keep enough air to
infiltrade the enemey's front lines and recok havoc soon after. The key to grabbing
3-5 seconds of air and at the same time clearing more distance from point A to Point
B is to know your surrounds and what is going on. The best times to surface are the
only times to surface....For example in chronological order....

#1 Expect incoming fire within 6 seconds of spotting the first scout planes at the
begining of the game, either dive now or start to zig and zag until fired upon.

#2 I normally surface at 75% air supply. For SS4 Planesmen about 8 to 15 seconds
have passed while I was already under water and there is zero chance of being
attacked when I first surface. Once on the surface immediatly zig and zag including
driving in a complete 360 to avoid heavy incoming BB fire. During this phase your a
decoy and you expect this fire while at the same time giving your BBs a chance to
counter that fire. Submerge 2 to 3 seconds after the first heavy salvo lands near
you. At this ponit your start to watch the BBs and counting their reload times. This
is a lot to do all at once. but do it...

#3 If there was only one BB firing at me I typically surface as fast as I can and
submerge again spamming U. Fast as possible. This adds 3 seconds of airtime to
your supply simply becauase your on the surface and your still getting closer and
closer. Also start avoiding ASW ships or BBs with HH by simply dirving north our
south of current location. This helps through them off your trail...

#4 Count BBs reloads and watch for the Bbs to fire at something else. You can
surface and submerge in 6 seconds total thats faster then most BBs reloads plus
they need additional time to recaulculate fire & control. Avoid ASW ships while your
support blasts them as they chase you north/south.

#5 Surface to finish off ships they dont expect it... there is more glory in it, and you
save torps while adding air to your supply...

#6 Hump AA & TW ships as well as unarmmed CVs. I also enjoy humping
submarines that have no guns. The other team has to choose between team killing
or allowing your to load up on air.

#7 360 in the clouds.....works super good...

#8 Learn the tendencies of automatic Aiming FCS. If it takes the shell 3-5 seconds
or londer to travel the entire distance before striking its target then you can dodge
it. If the BBs cant block shoot while at the same time sub commander zig and zag
means that have little chance of striking the now soft and vulnerable submarines.

Week #2

He who fires the last shot wins...
Press Fire after you have begun to critical dive... not before... that gives you the last
shot...

SS-Superstar
  Index

  • Re : Submarine & ASW Tips from Starluck Revised Feb 20th

    08. 05. 2010 12:30

Scmoo472
Something to note, you have km sub, so ASW is FAR easier for you because you don't have to
hit the enemy. Second off, this isn't very well suited for SS1-2 because there sonar isn't
going to be as far out as say mine or yours, (lvl 98 ebve sonar, 210 vets) this is more of
just an ASW post.
Something as a suggestion is to make tactics for specific subs. (IJN, KM, MN, UK, US).
Thanks,
Scmoo472
*ps* KM U Flak guns are extremely bad to carry, you lose alot of SD not carrying 2
rep/rest there, and everyone knows that those guns shouldn't be able to do any damage to a BB*

  • Re : Submarine & ASW Tips from Starluck Revised Feb 20th

    08. 05. 2010 11:56

USS_Maxtro
Good Guides, Thanks for the contribution. I will put them into practice.

Regards

  • Re : Submarine & ASW Tips from Starluck Revised Feb 20th

    03. 03. 2010 15:41

Scmoo472
Good advice for newer sub players. I disagree with the staying invisible to another sub.
because your not invisible if they see where the torps come from. Not to mention that they
can crash dive and avoid them and if your a low level sub your torps do not reload as fast
as mine our another SS3 or 4. It's best to use this tactic if they are not in the process
of diving. Just to add a hint to killing subs. if you see them on sonar and they crit dive
use gradual firing. you can keep 1 salvo of HH on them so they only have 2 choices. rise
up and take a lot of damage and allow you to shoot more at them, or they stay crash dived
and take more damage. I believe if you push (=) button your escort will not shoot.
Excellent ASW ships i know of are emden (KM ECL, 8 HH launchers and 2 DC/Torp launchers),
TW ( IJN kuma remodel, possible to put 10 HH launchers/DC/Torp launchers, and 3 HH
launchers on the R slots.) Any PCA, use escort FF and disable guns and put sonar on it.
Remember DD or FF with no sonar can only see a sub out to 66% of its visibility range. CL
and CV can only see a sub with sonarman.
And i recommend using .2 belt on your sub and some bulge and bulk head. i have taken many
TW torps and was still in the green and i only have 200 SD using my no gun setup on my
sub. with 2 reps and a restore on i have 600 SD. but no room for armor.

  • Re : Submarine & ASW Tips from Starluck

    02. 19. 2010 00:18

woodskier
DD tatics: wait for freindly sub to light up enemy sub. Rush into area. Dispense depth charges,
zoom away. Rejoice in the double kill. Repeat. .....(lol)

  • Re : Submarine & ASW Tips from Starluck

    02. 17. 2010 21:57

dingy
ya ild agree with most of it

good for a crash course for the up and comers

i do things a bit differently...but thats ok

it doesnt go as planned everytime

"NEVER GET BETWEEN 2 SUBS EGNAGED IN COMBAT" i agree 100% on that one...
its just not a good idea

  • Re : Submarine & ASW Tips from Starluck

    02. 17. 2010 17:40

Bart133
The advice is good, but I've always gone after enemy subs above all other targets.
ASW is uncommon enough that it's safe to ignore most FF/DD/CL, and recognizing
ASW ships isn't that hard.

  • Re : Submarine & ASW Tips from Starluck

    02. 17. 2010 15:29

Adjutant
I disagree with the notion that this is the only way to do things.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying your way is not the only way. There are
different play styles for ASW.

Good advice on the "no rushing." That is the key to good ASW, as obvious as it may
sound.

  • Re : Submarine & ASW Tips from Starluck

    02. 17. 2010 13:28

SRckt98
sorry to break it to you buddy, but you need a sonarman to see subs with a CL

also, CVs can also see subs with a sonarman but have a reduced range of detection

whenever you overheat you also loose sonar range, the only time this doesn't count is
overheating underwater in a sub, if you are on the surface in any ship you lose your sonar
(due to cavitation)

  • Re : Submarine & ASW Tips from Starluck

    02. 15. 2010 03:55

Elenwyd
Many thanks for the advice!
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