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  • Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 25. 2010 17:14

Holycannoli
I feel like a complete newbie again!

We have the very useful RANGE chart, but are there any charts anywhere that list
relative DAMAGE compared to other guns? I don't mean exact damages since they
differ with shells, but whether a gun can pierce armor effectively, which ones do
more damage etc.

Since I started playing again a few days ago I can't remember why my ships have
the guns they have. For instance my Guam has the 12"/50 cal Mark 8 Ls instead of
the 14"/45 cal Mark 10 L's, and I just can't remember why I chose them. The 14"
should do more damage right? 12" do good damage, 14" do better, 16" do best?
That's what my uneducated mind says anyway.

I read in another thread while searching another topic that the 14" guns cannot
pierce armor, and in LK's BB guide it does say that if you choose 14" for Guam you
lose firepower.

Why? If a 12" has good firepower and a 16" has amazing firepower, wouldn't a 14"
be in between? Ingame the 14" are a higher level, faster muzzle velocity and take
more space. That's where the confusion is for me. Where does it indicate that these
guns have less firepower than the 12"? Is it because the 12" are 50 cal and the 14"
are 45 cal?

Is it simply because 12" can fire at a 45 degree angle, and if the 14" had the same
angle it would do more damage?

(and why does it say ingame that 12" are 12 caliber when it's 12"/50 cal? Isn't 50
cal 50 caliber? I'm confused all over again :))

I know this all sounds newbie to you guys, but after a 3 year absence it gets pretty
confusing. With all the information they give you ingame on these guns, they don't
actually tell you what damage they do. You have to assume, and I assume probably
like many others that the larger guns do more damage than the lower guns. That is
obviously wrong though, especially when a larger gun with higher muzzle velocity
cannot pierce armor the way a smaller gun with lower muzzle velocity can?
  Index

  • Re : Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 27. 2010 22:07

Verfallen
I'm not sure how exactly its calculated, but angle of penetration matters a lot.

Its the whole point behind the lost art of HAW (high angle firing) with atlanta, UK county
and any USN 5" tbh (doesnt work as well with the 5/38 mk29 and mk38 than it does with 5/54
mk16, but you see a good enough difference with your shot.

A DD (as 5/38 are used on the DD2/3 of the USN navy) will still score way more than it
should and be a serious enough threat to CL and CA if the player is good at the technique,
getting 300-400 damage a shell with the great reload they offer.

I have no idea if the muzzle velocity (has it is a data of the gun) is activated or not.
Because its there in NF doesnt mean it works -.- (exemple aircraft and AAW (sailor
ability, not ship AAW stat)

  • Re : Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 27. 2010 08:33

normpearii
"i dont think the game mechanics get this detailed, u also have to take into account the
diferent density of the atmosphere, close to the ocean and high above clouds, also i dont
know if coriolis significantly affect aiming.

So, any input?, what things does the game physics take into account to calculate trajectory? "

Did you honestly thing an outdated 2D Sprite engined game is that detailed to account in
air resistance, wind direction and other factors in the physics engine?

Shells travel the same distance from point fired to where it is aimed regardless of
anything. The movement of the ship cause the range to look "increased" Simply test is
firing from the same spot not moving record the area hit and where the shells fired from
and then moving aim the same direction and record. They should be with 1 coordinate of
where you hit without moving due to the game's accuracy revision.

If needed I can do this experiment and take screenshots and calculate the distance the
shells travel based on the in-game grid system.

Shell physics in this game simply take: Muzzle velocity, trajectory, Point A to Point B
Distrance based on selected angle of fire and direction aimed. To calculate where the
shell lands and path it follows in flight (Hence the second delay before firing after
hitting the spacebar key)

  • Re : Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 26. 2010 21:16

Compassghost
Yes, it actually works like that in-game. It's not so exaggerated with the BB guns, but
with CA guns, you will definitely see some sort of deck angle. 12" do not actually taper
down to 70 degrees, that's a bit exaggerated on my part, but they do have a higher
incoming angle. It becomes much more noticeable with HHE, which you can use to some
degree with the 14" shells. When you fire 14" LHE, it will travel in a relatively flat
parabolic trajectory. When you fire the 14" HHE, it will match the LHE for the most part
and then taper off into a 45 degree fall at the end of its flight. Ironically, HHE has a
higher chance of penetrating than AP because the AP will strike at 25-30 degrees above
horizontal and possibly bounce while the HHE will just sputter out and dive into the deck
at what would be considered a high-angle hit even though it is fired at a low angle. I'll
get an LHE/HHE angle comparison tomorrow to show you just how shallow and steep they are
compared to each other.

  • Re : Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 26. 2010 20:04

alche
i dont think the game mechanics get this detailed, u also have to take into account the
diferent density of the atmosphere, close to the ocean and high above clouds, also i dont
know if coriolis significantly affect aiming.

So, any input?, what things does the game physics take into account to calculate trajectory?

  • Re : Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 26. 2010 19:02

Holycannoli
It actually works like that ingame?

  • Re : Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 26. 2010 17:50

normpearii


Get it now?

I'll added Velocity if needed.

Oh and yes I know my paint skills fail. I'm much better in photoshop :)

Edit: Added Velocity (Dash Marks are the velocity of the shell with nearest speed
(Approximate) in Meters per Second)(Angles @ end of path are approximate (Not Calculated)

NOTICE after some approximate calculations the final speed on the 45 degrees should be
1600ish m/s not 1350 m/s

  • Re : Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 26. 2010 15:55

alche
Compass, this loss of speed u are talking about, that makes the 12s hit above the 45
degrees wich it was shot, i can see this in real life physics, but is it like this in the
game?
What are the gun rules used in the game?

cos i dont think air resistance is taked into account..

so, what does muzzle speed means in game besides time till target?
a gun shotting at 45? will hit the target at 45?also? (cuadratic ballistics?)
does the ship direction relative to the shell affect the speed in game? (like if u are
heading the same way u are firing, the shell has slight more speed?

Another thing, btw, do you think that bb guns in the game should have a minimum angle
(like 5 or 10) to represent the fact that u cannot shoot 16 inch guns at an ff next to you?
so you must use t slot guns?

  • Re : Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 25. 2010 22:52

Falkon71
"I don't know when these guns will block but it's gotta be at much higher levels, or I
need a whole lot more vets. "

Both parts of this statement are true.....many more levels and a whole lot more
vets/experts

  • Re : Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 25. 2010 21:30

Holycannoli
My 12s on my Guam certainly don't block :) They have a pretty terrible spread at max
range with my level 66 gunners (boosted, with 39 and 49 vets on each and 190 and
260 experts from vetting, 2nd gunner was more successful and has more experts as
a result ). My gunners are slightly screwed up though, one has 3 less crew than the
other? 502 vs 499, and I don't know why.

I don't know when these guns will block but it's gotta be at much higher levels, or I
need a whole lot more vets.

  • Re : Gun DAMAGE chart anywhere?

    07. 25. 2010 20:16

Compassghost
Not necessarily. The 12" shell also has another feature that the 14" shell does not:
overhang.

If you fire a 12" shell at 45 degrees, in most cases, it will strike at an angle 70
degrees above planar, simply because the 12" shell loses so much velocity at higher angles
because of its lower muzzle velocity. As a result, a 12" shell fired at 30 degrees,
though shorter range than the 14" fired at 30 degrees, continues to strike at perhaps a 40
to 45 degree angle because the round tapers off at the end. Below 25 degrees, both the
14" and the 12" shell start getting massive debuffs against ships with deck armor, down to
around 20 degrees, where both shells once again start dealing deck damage.

The 12", because of its higher angle, allows it to have a much smaller dead zone, though
the dead zone is much closer to the ship. In addition, its rounds take very long to land
on target, making it much more difficult to hit them. That's why the 14" round, even with
its enormous dead zone, is easier to use.

There aren't very many US guns that block, especially at BB level. I'm pretty sure 12s
block, 16" duals block, and maybe the first set of 14s get tight spread. The second set
of 14s for Penn43 and NM45 don't block. SoDak and NC definitely don't block. It is just
inherent ability level that determines the blocking.

Muzzle velocity is how fast a shell fires initially when fired out of a gun. It doesn't
affect damage so much as it affects time a round is in the air. A gun with high velocity
will hit the target much faster. Depending on how you play your ship, this causes
different things. High muzzle velocity with a low angle, such as 14", provides a very
accurate shot. Low muzzle velocity coupled with most 45 degree guns creates massive hang
time for rounds that does a hook shot at the end, increasing deck damage at the end of its
flight. This allows ships with high angles of fire to basically extend their range by one
to two classes simply by running away from an opponent that is rushing them.
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