Community - Forum - View old data

Categories :  

Suggestions

  Index

  • Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    01. 05. 2011 07:31

Sonlirain
Ok the SS are quite probably the least liked ship class of the game.

They have nuke torps with enough splash damage/radius the can sink most ASW ships by NOT
EVEN HITTING them cause one or two torps detonating nearby will cause them to sink... heck
a sub can sink a BB without even hitting it. The torps just have to run out of fuel nearby
to cause heavy damage and possibly sink a BB.
The awesome power of SS torps was "balanced" by their chance of going under their target
without going boom upon contact.
This was of course BS... a unneded "random" mechanic that often saves people who should
sink and denies the sub driver the damage he EARNED for actually HITTING the ship. This of
course makes more and more sub drivers abuse the atomic splash damage of their torps by
torping from far away and hoping for the best.

REMOVE both splash damage and the "dud" mechanic the sub should be rewarded for HITTING
its target. Not spraying torps around it at a certain range..

And on top of that we have the SS1 and SS2.
Those things are TOO SLOW to get anything done. SS1 goes 20 knts and its air will most
likely run out a screen before reaching the enemy BB line.
And cut the "its an antirush/ASW submarine for supporting the line" crap.
If the enemy is rushing i doubt one SS1 with 4 torps south can make a difference (unless
the enemy has 0 bulge installed or was hit by many TW/TB/Other SS torps)
Hope you enjoy the epic exp for getting 4 attack,

Please give those guys at least 25 knts surfaced and more air... decrease torp damage,
DP... anything (other than torp tube # they are already low at that). Just give them more
speed If i could go 25 knt but had torps doing 10k damage i'd be happy with that since i
could still kill ships at my level with ease its not like every sub should be capable of
nuking a BB6 in 1 or 2 salvos...)

Rebalance the ASW weapons.

HH - Lower their area of effect to near 0 and reduce the fuse to 1 second and increase
their damage. IRL HH were literally shells that exploaded only when they actually HIT the
sub. Right now HH are mini DCs

DC - They do way too much damage to both subs and ASW ships alike. Reduce their area of
effect and damage maybe oneshotting subs when they get a direct hit but not when the sub
left them far behind. Right now they oneshot every sub within a large radius unless it has
like... 800-900 SD in addition it deals damage to the player using them... and that counts
as TK damage... the ASW ship gets meager exp... a loss - loss situation WOPR would stop
playing NF and go for Hello Kitty MMO or a game of chess.

Remove the splash damage or reduce it to... the damage range to make it closer to a 18"
shell splash (minor damage).
Make it harder to use by making ASW ships drop only one instead of two.
Also scramble the sonar for 2-3 when the ASW ship is under fire (if overheating makes the
sonar go offline how come being pummeled by shells and having even more shells around the
ship go boom in the water does not)
  Index

  • Re : Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    02. 21. 2011 13:13

tipsypo
I am a Royal Navy destroyer owner so I am much more on the A/S side although I do
not want submarines to be reduced so that my prey becomes no challenge. I own 4
Royal Navy destroyers and do not use anything else much, my battle cruiser, light
cruiser, or carrier.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I actually think in order to balance the A/S the game just needs something to
cause more non-new players to play destroyers. Not needing to pay to repair your
ship is not enough to tempt most players into using destroyers but experience does
seem to be so maybe just a change in the experience gaining in destroyers.

In the current player base the new ones that are still stuck using destroyers are too
inexperienced to know how to combat the submarines, I mean for goodness sake
they fire they're main guns at submerged ones like stupid capital ships. But non-new
players just screw the destroyers once they get to the cruisers and never look back.

Which leaves us with just the determined destroyer captains like me to gaurd the
fleets. Now these 1 or 2 per game determined destroyers are not enough to protect
your own capital ships effectively from the five submarines that can oppose you so
we need more. Due to this lack the submarines seem to be conducting the majority
in A/S which should not be, this is a destroyers job!

Destroyers are meant to be expendable and submarines are meant to be fragile. So
I think the current damage that a submarines and destroyers can do to each other
is suitable. One rules the close up the other rules the distance.

Just as with Jellicoe as First Sea Lord in the Great War the problem as he saw and I
see now is that there are just too few destroyers to go around!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although were I to choose something other than just the need to get more
destroyers I would like these;

1 - Depth Charges and Submarine Torpedoes to have they're radius of effect
shrunken so that a submarines and destroyers can still obliterate each other but
require direct or very close hits to do so. Also remove the dud effect that occurs
upon torpedoes past theyre safety range.

2 - DO NOT GIVE ASDIC/SONAR TO OTHER SHIP TYPES THAN CAN BE GIVEN NOW!
Doing so will remove the new role that destroyers have to play and will remove
them into almost complete uselessness again.

3 - An non-premium hedgehog that destroyers can actually use upon they're
secondary mounts. Maybe just one with two warheads, as long as they can be
placed onto secondary mounts with enough ammunition. Current non-premium
hedgehogs can barely fit onto Royal Navy destroyers with two binds.

I must say regarding your suggestion to make asdic/sonar be scrambled whilst
taking fire, should you do this to surface ships the same should apply to submarines.

  • Re : Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    02. 20. 2011 22:12

Choctaw
What are you referring to?

  • Re : Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    02. 20. 2011 21:22

Vassilli
NOT ANOTHER NERF SS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Re : Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    02. 20. 2011 20:39

Choctaw
I think that by doing a few easy steps will make SS1 subs better.

1. Reducing the training level of the Planeman to 25 not 30.
2. Compression speed based on engine speed. The motors run the compressers.
Except for the first item all can be done without big changes to the game now.

Maybe having the option to "Snorkel" would help WW2 Subs.

ASW.
I think that Scouts should be able to spot subs, not at crash dive depth, any ship with a
Sonarman should be able to spot subs but, no one else. This prevents people from using
the mini map to spot subs. Subs are designed to be invisible in water. If the other
players do not have a Sonarman, that is their option. Sonarman are the sub crews "eyes".

The NF Subamrine Manual says,"Submarines cannot detect other enemy submarines which are
submerged without a sonarman."

So why can other ships spot subs for free without a sonarman?

Just by using the Mini map?









  • Re : Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    01. 08. 2011 10:53

rvail136
I started a thread on adding DC's to FF/DD's automatically...because ALL FF/DD's
had them...reduce the power of DC's...so they son't damage tthe ship dropping
them...Recc'd

But...keep in mind a U-boat sank the HMS Barham w/only 3 torps (Barham was
Elisabeth class BB)...and a number of other capital ships were sunk w/only a few
torps ea. But I do agree that missed torps that self detonate shouldn't be able to
cause major damage.

  • Re : Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    01. 07. 2011 17:00

koala44202
Do NOT make subs visible while OH unless they are RIGHT next to the ship. Would be
kinda stupid to see a random OH sub in the mid of the map with no one by it. Rec
tomorrow. I am a sub player. I think splash is overused (except for km proxy. keep that
as a km advantage) and duds are annoying. I agree that subs can get unfair kills but
can also miss what should be a nice message saying "You have sunken blah blah blah
enemy ship."

  • Re : Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    01. 05. 2011 12:35

EmpirePL
I actually more or less agree with everything Son wrote, and I know him to be experienced
and skilled player. Recc'ed.

To be precise what I would like to see (and mind u, i have both CV and SS and i'm close to
BB1)

+1second HH fuse
HH cost reduced by 75%
-40% DC and -25% HH dmg radius
sub torp dmg changed to 6-10K (maybe 12 for IJN Long Lances, but that's max)
sub torp splash -50% radius
SS1 speed +4-5 knots both normal and OH, air +15%
SS4 speed -1-2 knots both normal and OH

  • Re : Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    01. 05. 2011 10:34

Sonlirain
hamann - The things you posted would be most likely quite hard to implement because it
would require coding something new. Most of my suggestions are only stat changes.

elves - you are the single kid in the family right?
Nerf ASW buff subs... now where did i hear that... ahh yes countless times when i enter
this forum and see one of the many SScentric threads.

  • Re : Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    01. 05. 2011 09:43

elves
There is already a sub thread. Use it.

I disagree with everything you say except for the DC's and some of the HH.

DC's do way to much damage and kill a sub in 1 shot. The damage radius needs to be
reduced severely and possibly the damage as well, although, you can crit dive before
they explode.

HH should NOT have a 1 second fuse. You can only get into crit dive if you see the ship
firing them, and they should only explode if they hit the sub. PHH is just stupid. It's
depth charges which you can fire long range.... Reduce damage, spread or take them
out.

  • Re : Sub/ASW rebalance ideas.

    01. 05. 2011 09:28

hamann
things you forgot to mention
1.SS should be spotable if the ss driver used over heat
2.HH price should be lowered 500 is high make it 50 or 100
3. a new type of planes or normal bombers{or scouts} should be able to carry depth charges
with manual or auto drop function
4.submarine L.O.S {line of sight} while submerged should be increased cos the ss don't
relay on sight but on hydrophones . so they should get extra L.O.S
if not clear vision they should see shadows of ships like what we see when ships just out
of L.O.S but not too far
5.if SS get near ships with one of the ships have a sonar man on it the sub driver should
hear a sonar pings to warn him about that but not showing which ship have the sonar man on
board
6.SS should have something called S/R silent running a mode in which the sub became
undetectable by sonar but run on very low speed not more than 5 Knts ,can't reload
torpedos and can't fire any torpedo and can't repair it self when the sub get out of S/R
it needs 6 secends to be able to fire torpedos but can repair & reload immeditly .

7. DC range should be increased by adding Y and K guns for depth charges
1