Allow more subs to enter games and more BB etc players will quit playing.
It's bad enough when there are 5 per team. Don't give me that lame
excuse about using an escort. They can't be controlled, are fragile, and
cross other ships. At least vs enemy planes, we can see them and use AA.
Newer players tend to go the sub route -> easy mode. Not many pre-sub
era players are dedicated submariners.

@ Hamaan Please don't take me for hating on subs; I think that they give a good dynamic to
the game. Oh, and for knot, while were on that topic, we all know that we aren't piloting
real ships. NF isn't real. But the reason we play is because we want the FEELING that we
are re-creating it. Yes, you're right. There are huge numbers of subs in the war. However,
most were involved in attacking the merchant ships. Many fewer were involved in warship
combat because they were moving about 20 knots slower when underwater. I don't own a BB
either. After my experiences, I'm thinking that I'm going to spend more time just working
out towards getting a CV. I tip my hat to the SS fleet. You're tough for sure. Also,
you're argument is accurate. In the modern fleet, SSN has become the capital ships of the
navy. But this is still WW II, so no, I still don't like 10 subs cruising around instead
of more BBs. I say more DDs, CAs, and CLs, like RL.

@ killknots I like the idea too have having high level small ships in the game too. The
problem is that the game makes the higher level sailors heavier; they won't fit on the
ships! I'd love to just drive around and fight subs all day. Dodging inbetween 10 of my
own BBs while having 10 more shooting at me isn't a lot of fun. Well, sometimes its not. I
can see myself having to make a new DD crew every couple months so that I don't get so
heavy it kills the speed of the ship.

this reply is for you Kilaenots
use a FF1 as escort it will cost you 5 credits each game and can spot subs

"can you tell me if you play as BB how many time you shot at an SS on the middle of the
map from far away ?"

Every game, ss take priority over other ships cause once they dive you may never see them
again until your dead (there is a complete lack of ASW as we need high lvl smaller ships
IMO). Back to the point how many times do I sink said ss I fire all the way across the map
at, not very often. Now if my shells put out 20k damage and hit when I missed then I'd
probably sink more of them.

I actually think ss are pretty balanced now, the only change I would make is to make them
visable when they OH, with a touch more air if they don't OH.

Having 10 ss in the room isn't that common so there really isn't any need for a change.

Oh and do remember NF=/=RL

Don't get me wrong, I agree with some of what you are saying. I HATE seeing 20 BBs
clogging up the lanes and sailing up and down firing salvos across the map. Believe me,
I'm grateful for the sub duels that always happen in the center too; it means that my odds
of survival are going to be higher. My stats last night: 6 sub vs ASW. Four times, I sunk
the sub. Twice the subs sunk me. In one of the losses, I was fighting two subs at the same
time. The other was a special case and I gave myself up to waste time for the victory. In
those 6 fights I received help 2 times and only one was effective by keeping the sub under
with salvos. If you didn't have BBs blasting the subs, then they would completely dominate
the game. I think the thing to do is have the subs capable of diving for longer (not
critical dive) and then add a bonus to the ASW hunters, like they do for planes. What this
does is scare all the BB lovers as they can't fight against the subs (which they
shouldn't) yet it encourages ASW ships and puts more DDs and CLs in the game making it
more realistic.

thats what i am taking about man
having more than 10 SS for GBII they well fight each other (at least this is what i do to
protect my team BB's and CV's until i kill all of the other team subs then if i survived i
go after what ever i face) but
can you tell me if you play as BB how many time you shot at an SS on the middle of the map
from far away ?

let me explain it like this

if you have a limit of 5 BB for each time one GBII would it be fair ??

for Lionel2:

how many sub did each nation have in WWII
the answer is simple --> more than the hole number of all nations battleships in fact it
is more than battleships and carriers of all nations
so does this make clear what i am saying , it is like limiting the number of CL class or
CA class

and if you want to know what i do else check one of my ships
by the way TB and DB on board too but not showing + sonarman
i play this game for killing subs even thought i don't have a BB and i am not planning to
get one

Oh, yes, and your comment about there were more submarines then BBs so it isn't real isn't
accurate either. In WW II, a sub could take less damage and was smaller than a DD and
displaced a couple thousand tons. Here, they absorb about as much damage as a Hipper or
Baltimore class cruiser that displaces about 30,000 tons. So, no, that's not real either.
Make subs sink easier and then we should add more.

Its all about balance. Lets say that you have 50 ships when you start, at 25 per team. If
you have 10 battleships, 4 carriers and 5 subs, that leaves only slots for 6 CA, CL and DD
total. As it is, the 20 battleships cruising north and south on the map limits the tactics
used in the beginning and causes all the lessor ships to either launch a wave of torpedos
and run in hopes noob BBs will hit them, or drive to their death where a few short salvos
add them to the XP totals. If you were double the number of subs, in the same game, you
would eliminate all other classes of ships. Most of the reason I like GB is because of the
variety of ships. The second issue is the amount of damage that subs take. When you add
that to their deadly abilities, well, enough has been said about that elsewhere. The final
thing is ASW. From my DD perspective, I'm luck if there is another ASW out there. So
either I take on the sub alone or if I'm really lucky an alert CL or BB will come back and
help. Don't talk about subs dueling either. No self respecting submariner is going to play
defense and protect 4 carriers in the rear of the lines with 10 BBs and 4 CVs out there
looking to get sunk! In short, you send 5 subs on 1 or 2 ASW, were lucky to get two or
three. You change the rule, then you'll be sending 10 subs and I'll certainly be alone.
Not cool.

Have you played in a bb vs ss4? Having 1 of them against you can be impossible, you want
more then 5! are you crazy? The only good thing is they seem accomplished at killing each
other.