Generally, IJN and KM AA>MN AA, even though MN has longer range, due to MN having
abysmal amounts of damage.

Following the same logic, I don't see how SN out ranging KM, some USN, and UK AA
being so overpowered that it needs a nerf. As far as low damage, good range, poor
reload traits goes, that was made by SDE, and I'd rather follow SDE's mind than to
change it to be a poor version of the KM3.46/IJN dual 5".

A longer range, anti-scout AA is more of what is needed IMO than a spam AA, as SN's
other choice of AA, the Minizini's can be made to fit that niche slightly better. Also note,
currently the BB1 can mix the trip 6" AA and the dual 5" AA like the SY, and works
decently; if we adjust the GA of the 5.1" SD-2s, we'll have to buff the BB1's T slots again
so it can use the second set of dual 6" for AA, pushing the small T slots of the BB1 well
over 100 to around 110.

Exactly GS, this is where we should heading.
Right now it has long range, but the reload is poor as well as damage which could be
slightly increased.

Seems to me that I'm not high enough level but Ive been using torps and not aa

Richard I know you take balance very seriously, you have been one of the most
active people with testing and posting your (usually quite helpful imo) thoughts
about SN balance and I hope you didn't get the impression that I was bashing on
you somehow ;) .

Just so we are on the same page, my ideal situation for SN AA would be a decrease
in the range of the 5.1" (to somewhere around the 34-35ish golden angle area
instead of the current 31-32) coupled with an increase in either damage or reload or
both. However I was under the impression that for whatever reason it is very hard
to change ranges in the code.

My current thoughts about the SN AA is that it is too long range but also too weak in
terms of dps. You make a fair point about a tight block grouping that is sufficient for
killing scouts and fighters, but my experience so far is that the poor damage and
reload makes it very difficult to bring down a large wave of bombers. With 8-10
barrels per side even if most of your shells hit they simply won't kill a whole wave in
the time before it gets through. Even with USN 3/70 your range is not good but you
are able to spam out enough higher damage shells that this isn't an issue.

Again, I think it might not be a good idea to leave the range and buff the damage as
this would make it too strong, but the best solution would be a combination range
nerf and damage buff I think.

I freely admit that I don't have the amount of AA experience you do, but I'm not a
total noob either. For what its worth this is my 2nd account (I'm a returning beta
player and they weren't unable to restore my old one sadly :X ), and have probably
spent at least 50% of the games I have been back flacking with various nations
because I enjoy it.

Meh, I wouldn't take advice from you if I ever play IJN. You even admitted to play UK
style in it.
;)

Main topic, you can cross the T slot remember.

Richard, that's why you fail so hard with proper BBs :P

As far as oneshottablity, for some scouts, yes, for CV planes, only sometimes.

@GS I understand your point, that you're afraid I only stick on one thing and don't check
from the outside.

I based myself on my experience with the main server, test server for SN.
I dont want to bragg, but I have grinded my way to kaiser and qv with moltke aa/emerald,
and other dunkerque AA. Now, I am spending my time on the MN AA.
I put my scale by zooming out and watching the overall.

Yes, I put emphasis on the detail. I take balancing very seriously. Right now, I put
emphasis on thing especially I know. Out of 17-18 k of gaming experience, I think I have
spent over 10k only by AAing, that's why I can focus at AA at this moment.

It is dangerous to compare it with KM AA, as KM AA is overpowered. When comparing
something worse with something overkill. This is where you guys think it is useable.
Because it is a "contrast effect", mainly a psychology explanation. I am just here to
point out this mistake that most of us actually does.


The argument saying past bb3 is somehow invalid, because bb1 to bb6 ,all bb if not do have
fantastic AA platform. Yet, most of those BB do can cover 360, due to their 180 arc of fire.

Damage per shells is also a tricky part. The question that I ask, will that be enough to
oneshot scout or fighter? Considering that you use SN gunners, which provides great
accuracy, and blockshot AA. It is possible to oneshot the planes.

Right now, my eyes is on the big caliber AA, 5"+, because it has range, and a epic
"retard" heavy . That 3inch AA gun soviet, is also
subject of discussion. .The idea is to make those guns worthwhile.



Like I said, adjusting does not necessarly making them worse. Again, the idea is to make
them worthwhile according to the SN trait. This is where the tricky part.
Right now, we observe what does not fit. Suggestion and idea to improve only comes later.

This is mainly due to SDE lazyness to patch.
Yet, we are very kind to accept having main gunners to be able to use better AA than
another nation.



Here is an example, of a gunset which is subject of discussion.
Tested with RP AA, km 40 and USN long range AA to make a range comparison. Frankly,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUBTiSgR5dM

You have a fair point that the range is fairly good for the 5" and up, and I can't really
make a full judgement on what I think of SN AA until my gunners get closer to the
reload cap, but from what I have seen so far I don't think its very good. Its better
then UK, but really not that much better then USN due to the very low damage per
shell and long reload time.

The 3.9" minizini are comparable to the USN 5/38L in range and reload, but only do
55 damage a shell vs 81 for US. The 5.1" SD-2 are comparable to the USN 6"D with
slightly better reload (2.76 vs 3.24) but only do 95 damage per shell vs 144 for USN.
Hell the KM40 actually out damages the 5.1"(99 per shell) at the same range with a
1.2 second reload, which makes it ridiculously better as an AA gun. Even at the
reload cap it is unlikely you will be able to defend yourself against bombers from a
competent CV driver who is adjusting his altitude, and on top of that they are heavy.

They aren't completely unusable, but i find it extremely unlikely that many people will
be using them past bb3 because the reload and damage is just so bad. Good for
killing scouts due to the range, but thats about it.

Richard I know that you were part of the test team and do have experience with it,
but I think you are putting too much emphasis on the small scale test server battles
or something to form your opinion unless I am just misunderstanding you. If
anything it looks to me like SN AA could actually use a buff to either reload or shell
damage.

Well, all I can say is I would invite you to use the test server. You can create some sailors.
By then problem with at level won't be an issue anymore. I will be willing to assist you
in the next week.

In many of the situations I am faced with I feel SN AA can not deal with planes in a
close quarter range to an effective degree. Largely due I feel to the fact I am
enjoying the SU-2 quite a bit which has a slow refire rate and does poorly with
planes in close quarters, but when I was grinding out the Svetlana though using the
minizini's I just felt like I was throwing a rock at most planes making it easier for
other AA ships to knock them down.

Just my perceptions though and I've grinded out on AA for the US, UK, IJN, and now
SN.

Even with the weak refire I'm fine with how the AA is right now I'm not
uncomfortable with it. I still prefer the US AA 3" duals over most of the SN AA guns in
almost all instances.

It works but I just can't find a decent groove to follow with SN AA.