decrease hhs and dcs damage, right now subs are not overpowered or sth else. asws
are overpowered. i suggest you; when somebody uses dc and it explodes, nearly 5
secs to not has sonar vision. And also hhs only explode when it touch subs. I know
thats only a game but if you make it more realistic, u add more fun to game. sorry about
english

Ill try an almost impossible thing... to state some objective points so we can start to
AGREE and not to fall on everlasting BB vs SS chating

All probably agree with...
1. We must garanteed PLAYABILITY (It keeps community numerous)
2. We must keep GAME BALANCED (It keeps community happy)
3. We must encourage TEAM PLAYING (It take care of community's bounds)

{2 its a corolario's 1: playability 's one type of players must not be cut by
playability's others type}
Then we discuss RULES CHANGES here because RULES are the base to achieve thats points.
But RULES are not everything in a game: we need to keep on mind where we want to go: I
think something like that...

RULES(50%)+SKILL'S PLAYERS (50%)= SHIP ROCKS!!

Because I want to see good playing: thats I call "ship rocks". Thats means if a good
players take a sub or an ASW rabbit he can make a difference in his
team but a dumb player not. Some like a pro player (100% ship s capability) sunk at least
TWO dumb players (50% each)
I call this "NF UTOPIA" but as all utopies its a "want to go place" and every player can
got his own number: some think in 60/40 or 70/30 but in any way a player can want a 80/20
or worst...
because a good player show his value to himself and others in this little space between
base rules (speed, ship max air, prox or not prox dmg, fuse time, etc) and good tactic
aplication in his context. I put in black&white terms: If a bot can "rocks" then thats set of
rules are wrong.

Let me boring a little more with two examples too much see it in this forum, where the
breake of this laws are really what hurts our common senses
A. PHH--------> RULES (99%)+SKILL'S PLAYERS (1%)= frustated sub-player and a (VERY) new
player thinking "Im King's world!"
B. KM Prox-----> RULES (90%)+SKILL''S PLAYERS (10%)= frustated {any ship}-player (others
sub included)
C. SS1 training (there is no player effectively playing this tier) ------> RULES
(10%)+SKILL''S PLAYERS (90%)= I never see in this days a KM 'type II' really rocking!!! It
required a very unhuman player to show a decent playing with SS1.

In terms of my speculation, several post with changes sugestions are easily classified and
we can start to agree in some points
* A large group of suggestions about: speed (low/up), air time (low/up) -------> Abstract:
MOVE CAPABILITY TO REACH SOME ACTION IN REASONABLE TIME (very basic spectation for any
type of player), DETECTED/UNDETECTED
* A second group about: Torpedo (low dmg/nerf prox/reduce number), (P)HH/DC (fuse
timing/dmg change), Guns (remove capacity in sub) ---------------> Abstract: AGRESSIVE
CAPACITY TO FULFILL HIS ROLE
* A third group about: adds 3D to sub playing -something like airplanes- (several layers
for sub moving/variant levels of dmg to DC.HH/several speed/several deep dmg), batteries
(excelent idea!) ----------------> DEEPLY CHANGES ASW/SS PLAY (very tactical oriented ones)

In first two groups we can say "Its about PLAYABILITY! But both must be balanced" THats
means if we set rules to make very easy to reach action (buff speed or stealth/detection
capacity) then we must low agressive potential in threat (nerf torp etc) to natural enemy
(BB for SS, SS for rabbits). For opposite; if we slow MOVE we can compensate with
aggresive potential.
Thats all. I cant see any wrong about this changes, except, and but, it is not adds
something value to actual playing. Just keep balance in mind: No player (stoikic or not)
will play a 8 minutes navigating without action or a not chance escenario vs a super
weapon killing machine: all we want oportunities to show our values as players!!!

Personally I like the third group as I'm a player that found fun in Tactic challenges but
technical issues to implement in our game are a truly obtacle in this great ideas.
_________________________________________________
A side comment: we need to add something exceptional to SS5 (and SS6) playing style unique
so we dont fall in "band aids circlke" again (nerfing below SS5 class to satisfied
non-subplayers and lefting SS5 as only playability sub ships for restraining subplayers:
------> then... future SS5 equal actual SS4 = no value add to game )

we can start with that... please dont flame for languages issues as im an spanish speaker

leaderwolf wrote:

*''hell'' yes more air,air is good,cap speed all ships.

''Lower Torpedo splash damage for subs.''Sure and for asw no?*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------

read the full thread agein Altsain....yes ASW too

cheers
Megadone

''hell'' yes more air,air is good,cap speed all ships.

''Lower Torpedo splash damage for subs.''Sure and for asw no?

silentsubusa wrote:

*2. Just increase air time*
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------

and leave the 40 knots OH cap??? hell no....nerf speed...then talk about air -...-

as for ASW...it needs a nerf as well as dedicated ships for it...not just ships

cheers
Megadone

My analysis of the situation:

1. there is not enough ASW

2. subs dont have enough air.

Solutions:

1. Make a whole new shipline, perhaps from the APA, with small dd and FF sized
ships that have high speeds, kind of like PT boats. going all the way up to lvl 120,
and focusing on patrol duties, with small hit areas so they dont promptly get sniped
by BBs on the other team.
Also, have sailor bonuses simmilar to AA bonuses for simply damaging a sub, and
credit bonuses for sinking or critically hitting them. Ballance it out so ASW is as
rewarding as AA.

2. Just increase air time

Great topic. Too bad those who should care dont :(

1. SD and rep cap is needed. SD cap up to 600 and rep cap around 80 dp/s
(can be dependent on tier of the sub). Therefore no other "vulnerability" altering to
subs is needed.
2. Speed cap - more on this later.
3. Remove dud torps and splash dmg.
4. Decrease dmg made by KM proxy torps by around 70%. If the torp hits directly it
deals max dmg.
5. Leave dmg of torps and number of torps each sub carry as it is (except ss2,
decrease torps for ss2 to 20-25 torps).
6. Boost ss1 and ss2 by adding air. Their already limited by speed, number of torps
they carry, DP, etc.
7. Add more turning speed to all subs.
8. Decrease dmg done by antisub weapons (30% sound about right) and remove
dmg done by those weapons to surface targets. Its really painfull to watch asw
killing itself when attacking subs. And dont say those ships are fast enough to get
away from the blast radius. Runing from the sub (especialy KM one) when u were on
top of it is straight way to hell. Also longer the fuse on HHs and give them less range.
Its almost impossible to dodge them.
9. Add more exp for killing subs and for playing subs. Also add one more sub tier
around 100 lvl (premium ss or ss5) or remake the lvls needed for using subs (ss1 50
lvl, ss2 60, ss3 75, ss4 95) also rebalancing displacement would be needed (mainly
for ss1 and ss2).
10. Would be nice to have high lvl support ship (around lvl 80-90) where u can fit ur
fat crew and can make some serious XP with it.
11. At stern of each ship could be made small area which when hit with torps would
disable the ship for 10 seconds. Succes rate of this around 5-10%. And ship
immobilized this way couldnt be immobilized again for some period of time (10-20
secs).
12. Change targeting system for subs. Where u click to move there will be ur torpedo
firing line. The way it is now is just not right.

Battery vs air

The battery option has so much potential and i believe its the right way to go with
subs. The only con i see in it is there would be no further need for engineer onboard
and for more support slots . Lets say u could be under water for 2 mins when going
max speed. U would have to be very lucky to get to enemy line and fire atleast
1 salvo. Obviously u would have to optimise ur speed to get to enemy line and
conserve battery power. But OH is available only after reaching max cruise speed. So
i would suggest 4 speed modes.
1 - reverse to up to 5 knots + 3 knots OH
2 - 6 to up to 15 + 4-5 knots OH
3 - 16 to up to max speed + OH
4 - "oldschool" system - would be same as it is now
Could be changed like fire mode by 1 hotkey or by different hotkeys for each speed
mode. Also speed cap should be at max 30 knots for both underwater and surface
speeds.

Air

If the battery option couldnt be implemented then speed cap subs at around 15
knots + 5 knots OH and add them much more air. Like to be able to be under water
for approx 8 minutes. Also decreasing planesmans ability could be necessary.

Something have to be done with sub issue and fast

Lower Torpedo splash damage for subs. Most of the sub's kills are due to torpedo
splash. usually, the ship being sunk is never hit by a single torp... just the splash.

More weapons ? yes buff ASW more,more and more stuff asw for BB,push button pls.


Everyone is have a overpower weapons but the asw is still is much more overpower?
That topic is for worst subs players vs good subs players?
or maybe BB asw vs damned subs?
Is a constructive topic or destructive for subs?
Is just a simple questions,we can find a rigth answer?

@wizer900

so you whan't NF to be so easy...that a monkey can press a button and sink stuff?
pff

FYI nation traits ftw...untill SDE changes them, learn em -.-

cheers
Megadone