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  • Learning AA with UK - Where to Start

    10. 07. 2013 13:59


Valkur

A continuation of my newbie post on the main forums...

Where do I start with AA? I currently have a single level 44 AA gunner. My BO is level 69 and I've got access to Dunkerque, Renown/Repulse, and just about everything below. I figure I can find some guides on actually -hitting- something elsewhere (though tips still appreciated) but I can't for the life of me figure out what guns are supposed to work best and what ships can actually handle AA detail in a Great Battle. I figure I'll need to train up a second AA sailor, or perhaps two as I've probably classed the first one way too early.

Help a nub out - help me get some flak in the air so I'm a credit to the team :P 

 

  • Re : Learning AA with UK - Where to Start

    10. 07. 2013 15:04


jedizorro

Ok If you are going to use AA with UK ships, first you should know the difference between specialized AA guns and regular AA guns.
SPECIALIZED AA GUNS (Only to be operated by AA Gunners; NOT usable by normal UK gunners)
A) 5.25 QF/RP A

Pros: Compared to other 5.25 AA guns, this type has the fastest reload (but not that significantly faster like IJN/MN/KM/US/SN AA guns)

Cons: Shortest range of all 5.25 AA gun series.

 

B) Pom-Pom

Pros: Light-weighted; infinite ammo; can make your enemy lag sometimes;

Cons: AA range sucks; AA damage sucks.

 

REGULAR AA GUNS (Only to be operated by normal UK gunners; NOT usable by AA Gunners)
C) 5.25 RP Series (N, D, L)
Pros: L-type has got the best range, nice AA damage;

Cons: Slow reload (2 seconds+)

 

D) 5.25 QF Series (N, D, L)

Pros: Range is the same as 5.25 RP series; requires less turret space than RP series;

Cons: Reload time significantly longer than RP series (3 seconds +)

 

 

 

Then you should answer the question below:

In what scenario will you be using AA?
E) BB
F) CV
G) Ships smaller than BB to level up new sailors
H) Escort
I) Other


If your answer is E, then I highly suggest you level up another pair of pure Huge Reload Gunners (classed on-time). The best AA gun for UK BBs are 5.25 PR L, in my opinion, because this type of AA gun has got:
1) Best AA Range in all UK AA guns;

2) Good reload in all UK AA guns (just a little slower than the fastest UK AA gun: 5.25 RP A)

3) Nice AA Damage

4) If you are in WAW, you’ll find UK 5.25 RP L is almost the same as KM40 AA gun which is super super super powerful…

 

What you can do with this set of AA guns on your BB are:
1) Snipe enemy’s scout when they are in your range;

2) Effectively wipe out enemy TBs at all altitudes (if you have mastered this gun);

3) Less effectively wipe out enemy DBs (if enemy DB keep changing altitudes it becom

  • Re : Learning AA with UK - Where to Start

    10. 07. 2013 15:06


Benser33

Well, I'm going to bring up two points regarding AA for UK. The gunners, and the guns.

 

Firstly, the gunners. UK, as one of the original 4 nations, has dedicated AA gunner classes of the old design. Promoting to AA classes increases AAW ability, but reduces other abilities. However, where this was once of benefit a very long time ago, this is no longer the case. AAW ability no longer influences AA gunner performance (or anything at all). AA gunners rely on the attributes of normal gunners, Reload and Accuracy, and as I mentioned before these get lowered when you promote to the AA gunner class.

 

But you want the AA gunner class for the AA special guns, so what's the solution? Well, classing UK AA gunners and trying to make do is one method, but being able to reach that all important reload ability cap can be difficult and requires a combination of high base reload ability and a lot of experts and vets. A more efficient alternative is to keep your gunners at the basic Armament Sailor class (known as delay classing) to give their Reload and Accuracy more time to develop, then classing them into AA gunner at higher levels. You will still be able to AA with normal guns (because the specialised AA guns, often refered to as A guns due to the A suffix, are only AA variants of normal guns) until you access the A guns. The third option is to level a pair of normal gunners and class them like normal gunners, with high base reload and reload promotions. This option makes it the easiest to cap your gunners reload ability, but you won't be able to access the A type guns, you will need to use the slightly less effective D versions. You also won't have access to the UKs unique AA gun, the 2dpr 'Pom poms'.

 

Delaying your gunners is highly recommended; boosted elite reload gunners that have been classed on time still need to be lvl 120 and have 250 vets to reach the reload cap. Relatively, if you kept that same boosted gunner as an armament sailor then with just 100 vets they will reload cap at lvl 105, and with 200 vets this drops to only lvl 88. If you wanted gunners that are reload capped at 120, but wanted to access AA guns ASAP, delaying the above boosted elite reload gunners to lvl 70 will allow you to class them into AA gunner to access the AA guns and still reach the reload cap at lvl 120 with only 100 vets. (Note, these example all consider sailors having full experts)

 

These are only examples of the advantages of delaying your gunners as armament sailors. If you do so, I recommend you keep an eye on your gunner reload ability to see how close they are to the reload cap so you know when you can class into the actual AA class. You can delay to get access to guns earlier without need excessive amounts of vets, you can delay to make your gunners lighter, you can delay to reach the reload cap ASAP. Delaying the promotion to AA classes is a wise decision and investigating what levels your own gunners will cap with a level of vets you are comfortable with is highly recommended.

 

Now, the guns themselves. I'll point out the three most common and their angles.

 

The first, lower level AA guns do medium damage and have the fastest reload of the UK AA guns at 2.2s (only just) as well as being incredibly light at 35t each. The main drawback of this gun is its incredibly short range. I only recommend using this gun if you cannot access the 2x 5.25" RP 10s below.

Level 16 2x 4"/45 cal QF HK Mk. XVI D (The normal class gun) Golden Angle 39 and reload of 2.32s

Level 31 2x 4"/45 cal QF HK Mk. XVI A (The AA class gun) Golden Angle 40 and reload of 2.2s

 

The second gun is the most effective conventional UK AA gun, it has medium range, almost twice the damage of the 2x 4" guns, and only slightly slower reload speed at 2.24s. As an AA gun it performs only moderately in every way, no real drawback, but no distinction either (though they do turn quite quickly). Still, it is probably the best the UK has. It weighs a rather heavy 115t a piece however.

Level 31 2x 5.25"/50 RP 10 Mark I L has a Golden Angle of 32 and reload of 2.72s

Level 48 2x 5.25"/50 RP 10 Mark I A has a Golden Angle of 36 and reload of 2.24s

 

2x 5.25"/50 RP 10 Mark I A

 

The third and final gun I will mention is the UKs unique AA gun, the short range, rapid fire "Pom poms".

Level 45 7x 2pdr 1.57"/39 Mark VIII has a Golden Angle of 45-46 and reload of 0.52s

It is difficult to compare this gun to others, on paper its damage is very low, but in reality it can apply a decent amount of damage very quickly. Its main flaws are it's short range and awkward angles, it is quite ineffective at shooting down enemy scouts. Weighing in at 96t is fairly average.

 

7x 2pdr 1.57"/39 Mark VIII

 

I hope some of this helps, if you need more detailed information regarding late classing gunners then let me know, I'll help you figure out how many vets/experts your gunners might need or when to promote them from armamemt sailors if you choose to reroll a pair of gunners.

  • Re : Learning AA with UK - Where to Start

    10. 07. 2013 15:25


Benser33

Zorro has made a good recommendation in using standard UK reload gunners to utilize the RP10 Ls, which was something I had not previously considered.

  • Re : Learning AA with UK - Where to Start

    10. 07. 2013 19:51


Gedis

didn't thought i'll ever post in this section (due to easy mode nation), but here it goes:
Since i had layed down my hands on all the nations AA (except Italians), first thing i'll tell you, RN Level 31 2x 5.25"/50 RP 10 Mark I L has a Golden Angle of 32 and reload of 2.72s guns are better than best SN AA guns - SD-2s.
2nd, RN has good AA guns, but lacks small boats to fit them on too tiny T slots or has huge R slots, but for 3 guns only...
For instance, emerald with RP10 L guns has only 4 or 7 binds of ammo, which is low, for player who is either farming free experts or who is lvling by AAing.

This statement includes 'the AAers codex':

  • prioritize - take out bombers first, if not in range - scouts, if no bomber or scouts - figthers...
  • if accidently you shot down team's plane, say sorry and try to avoid doing that again
  • get glued to south's/middle's/north's front line BBs, to protect them. 
  • good AA player can be a mini CV, and when enemy team ships divert just on you, trying to sink you, this means you are above average AAer. 

  • Re : Learning AA with UK - Where to Start

    10. 08. 2013 14:09


Valkur

Thanks for the help guys. I hadn't known about the "AA" specialized guns vs the regulars. Here I was thinking that for AA I had to use the "A" suffix'd guns or bust.

I posted in my thread on the general section but I've done quite a bit better with this information. I've outfitted my RN_Dunkerque with the 5.25 RP 10 L's and AA ammo and while the setup of my T slots is a bit wonky - I've found I can effectively hang back and play AA and Scout until I find an opportunity to charge somebody and open up with my big guns on the front.

Hilariously enough I found it somewhat effective to turn around at the start of the match and reverse torwards the enemy - all my AA guns are on the rear of my ship - and just AA until enemy shells hit too close for comfort - then I just haul ass away, turn so my front is facing the enemy, and do my usual fighty thing. By backing up towards the enemy it gives me plenty of time to accelerate the hell outta danger when Kita torp waves come my way or the enemy BB's finally catch sight of me.

Funnily enough - I actually seemed to become a priority target at some points due to my dedication to blasting planes out of the sky. I pretty much kept my guns at the "Golden Angle" of 32 degrees and just blasted away. I honestly didn't try to change the angle and just used 32 degrees - it's probably a bit noobish but I found that using the 32 degree angle I hit pretty much anything that was coming close enough to be a threat.

Anyways, I hope this info helps somebody else as much as it helps me. I'll probably post another thread in awhile when I get time - I want to get a review and see if I've totally messed up my sailors stats or if I'm headed somewhat in the right direction.

I'm almost itching to have to level up some new sailors so I can go have some fun in Blitz rooms. 

  • Re : Learning AA with UK - Where to Start

    10. 08. 2013 16:17


jedizorro

Originally Posted by Valkur

Thanks for the help guys. I hadn't known about the "AA" specialized guns vs the regulars. Here I was thinking that for AA I had to use the "A" suffix'd guns or bust.

I posted in my thread on the general section but I've done quite a bit better with this information. I've outfitted my RN_Dunkerque with the 5.25 RP 10 L's and AA ammo and while the setup of my T slots is a bit wonky - I've found I can effectively hang back and play AA and Scout until I find an opportunity to charge somebody and open up with my big guns on the front.

Hilariously enough I found it somewhat effective to turn around at the start of the match and reverse torwards the enemy - all my AA guns are on the rear of my ship - and just AA until enemy shells hit too close for comfort - then I just haul ass away, turn so my front is facing the enemy, and do my usual fighty thing. By backing up towards the enemy it gives me plenty of time to accelerate the hell outta danger when Kita torp waves come my way or the enemy BB's finally catch sight of me.

Funnily enough - I actually seemed to become a priority target at some points due to my dedication to blasting planes out of the sky. I pretty much kept my guns at the "Golden Angle" of 32 degrees and just blasted away. I honestly didn't try to change the angle and just used 32 degrees - it's probably a bit noobish but I found that using the 32 degree angle I hit pretty much anything that was coming close enough to be a threat.

Anyways, I hope this info helps somebody else as much as it helps me. I'll probably post another thread in awhile when I get time - I want to get a review and see if I've totally messed up my sailors stats or if I'm headed somewhat in the right direction.

I'm almost itching to have to level up some new sailors so I can go have some fun in Blitz rooms. 


Yes what you did with Dunk was correct.

When you reach Nelson you'll find its rear AA even more poweful. 

When you reach QV or CV6 you'll find its AA somewhat god-like due to 360-degree firing angle.

Imagine your AA-armored QV with an AA escort... 

  • Re : Learning AA with UK - Where to Start

    10. 10. 2013 06:37


NIborGER

Originally Posted by Benser33

Well, I'm going to bring up two points regarding AA for UK. The gunners, and the guns.

 

Firstly, the gunners. UK, as one of the original 4 nations, has dedicated AA gunner classes of the old design. Promoting to AA classes increases AAW ability, but reduces other abilities. However, where this was once of benefit a very long time ago, this is no longer the case. AAW ability no longer influences AA gunner performance (or anything at all). AA gunners rely on the attributes of normal gunners, Reload and Accuracy, and as I mentioned before these get lowered when you promote to the AA gunner class.

 

But you want the AA gunner class for the AA special guns, so what's the solution? Well, classing UK AA gunners and trying to make do is one method, but being able to reach that all important reload ability cap can be difficult and requires a combination of high base reload ability and a lot of experts and vets. A more efficient alternative is to keep your gunners at the basic Armament Sailor class to give their Reload and Accuracy more time to develop, then classing them into AA gunner at higher levels. You will still be able to AA with normal guns (because the specialised AA guns, often refered to as A guns due to the A suffix, are only AA variants of normal guns) until you access the A guns. The third option is to level a pair of normal gunners and class them like normal gunners, with high base reload and reload promotions. This option makes it the easiest to cap your gunners reload ability, but you won't be able to access the A type guns, you will need to use the slightly less effective D versions. You also won't have access to the UKs unique AA gun, the 2dpr 'Pom poms'.

 

Now, the guns themselves. I'll point out the three most common and their angles.

 

The first, lower level AA guns do medium damage and have the fastest reload of the UK AA guns at 2.2s (only just) as well as being incredibly light at 35t each. The main drawback of this gun is its incredibly short range. I only recommend using this gun if you cannot access the 2x 5.25" RP 10s below.

Level 16 2x 4"/45 cal QF HK Mk. XVI D (The normal class gun) Golden Angle 39 and reload of 2.32s

Level 31 2x 4"/45 cal QF HK Mk. XVI A (The AA class gun) Golden Angle 40 and reload of 2.2s

 

The second gun is the most effective conventional UK AA gun, it has medium range, almost twice the damage of the 2x 4" guns, and only slightly slower reload speed at 2.24s. As an AA gun it performs only moderately in every way, no real drawback, but no distinction either (though they do turn quite quickly). Still, it is probably the best the UK has. It weighs a rather heavy 115t a piece however.

Level 31 2x 5.25"/50 RP 10 Mark I L has a Golden Angle of 32 and reload of 2.72s

Level 48 2x 5.25"/50 RP 10 Mark I A has a Golden Angle of 36 and reload of 2.24s

 

2x 5.25"/50 RP 10 Mark I A

 

The third and final gun I will mention is the UKs unique AA gun, the short range, rapid fire "Pom poms".

Level 45 7x 2pdr 1.57"/39 Mark VIII has a Golden Angle of 51 and reload of 0.52s

It is difficult to compare this gun to others, on paper its damage is very low, but in reality it can apply a decent amount of damage very quickly. Its main flaws are it's short range and awkward angles, it is quite ineffective at shooting down enemy scouts. Weighing in at 96t is fairly average.

 

7x 2pdr 1.57"/39 Mark VIII

 

I hope some of this helps, if you need more detailed information regarding late classing gunners then let me know, I'll help you figure out how many vets/experts your gunners might need or when to promote them from armamemt sailors if you choose to reroll a pair of gunners.



A really helpfull Guide.

Just a minor fix:
The GA for the pompoms is 45-46. The 51s are outdated. 
Maybe add that the pompoms are only usefull in high numbers. At least for me they are barely useable for L1+L2 (4 slots) but really enjoyable on QV (6slots). In fact anyone trying to fightercamp or Bomb you in a QV with pompoms has a hard time. 

If you intend to make this a even better guide for UK AA, maybe add that you should delay classing UK AA gunners as long as possible. 

  • Re : Learning AA with UK - Where to Start

    10. 10. 2013 09:54


Benser33

You're right actually, that angle is pretty out of date :)

 

Thank you, I've corrected my post. I'll expand only slightly more onto the classing on gunners, but full details is a matter for a dedicated thread really.

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