For an SS5 KM, all crew 125, sunk an escort-APA bulged means 8 torps impact direct on the APA.
You need the same torps, if you launch in simultaneus, to destroy the APA than a BB5, plus or minus. NOT LOGIC.
Maybe is the moment to introduce Premium Torpedoes (more dmg and more range). 

disagree.  all the prollems you mentioned have all been around a while.  CV sonar is newest at about 5-7 years old.

i bet few of you ever ran an SS1, SS2, SS3, or even an SS4 because the custom is to level the BO and Torpers to tier 5-6 and voila.

my original IJN sub crew went from IJN DD2 to SS6 maxed 120 in almost exactly a year.  i went thru every tier of sub.  many of the other old schoolers did this also.  

my point is you learn alot in a slow weak sub as you level up and its worth the time.

work smarter, keep the hitboxless KM subs off ya ass, try new tactics, and LEARN the RANGE of your sub torpedoes, both fast and slow.  use gradual firing when you can...

...and just go sneaking... 

hey techdome;.)

iowa is no beginner on sub, hes a veteran from eu server...like me with speciality ss

he knows how to do his job, believe me ;-)

dont ask how many ss lines we both leveled...yes, many starting from higher tier but also many from S1 onwards

thats not the point here (maybe for other ss palyers with same problem)

what iowa expresses is the high grade of frustration a sub player has sometimes when running in extreme anti-ss environment

(in addition the really rare opportunities for a ss player to get benefit in the many events...BB...BB...BB. ..bomb cv...bb...bb...bb........other topic.)

EVERY ship can kill you easily if loaded prem HH if you are once detected.

can BB or cv be killed easily by all other types? with T slot guns, secondary ,not your main weapon?

same shit moltkes or some cvs rushing BB with HH...successful

i smashed my head on keyboard as i read about plans for a sonar-item on BB...

yes, with proper work and tactics much can be done, but...

and once in crit you never come up again if enemy is not stupid.

the classic waterbombs where more balanced. you needed some skill and proper work to kill AND survive...fair fight

when did you last time see a frigate y attacking a ss with waterbombs?

2008?

:-)

there are battles, you get 200+ k dmg with ss, like walking on sunday... no one had HH ;-)

true

but in 9.x of 10 cases ...."its raining again" :-))

depending on daytime a little bit. depending who is palying.

and if no other subs to duel with in mid...only option is suicide attack ;-)

(talking of GB)

HH is implemented totally OP, thats a fact.

ss are very bad implemented - fact too.

but a fact is this will never be changed...

because its a BB game...

BB is the majority

we have to live with it;-)

From what you say little you pay attention to the one in front of you, how he evolves, how he plays, his abilities and his failures as a player.
Each and every one of my subs (7), with its usual crew, has been uploaded by the line that corresponds to it, at the most, if I remember correctly, there is only one sailor that I had to repeat in the SS KM, which raised it to level 90 and then I gave him the corresponding specialization.
Except this one, absolutely all the others, have been specialized when it was their turn, on the ship that belonged to them. And there are 7 subs that I have, of which the lowest level is IJN 108, UK 116, RM 124 and the rest (US, KM, SN and MN) 125.
One is not born taught and has learned some tricks of his own or from others, from the difficulties of each nation and each sub, how one or the other plays, with sub or with bb.
I do not think that anyone with 7 SS6, 7BB6 and 4 CV6, based on patience, tenacity and courage, and, why not, also on errors, with 22kwin / 41k battles, 759 ff, 5870 dd, 7184 cl, 3842 ca, 5419 cv, 22k bb, 10k ss sunk, it can be, cheerfully, called noob.
I try to keep tremendous respect for everyone, especially for all those who have shown themselves to be strong in their performance, be it playing in GB or HA / HD, be it with BB, CV, DD, CL, FF and, above all, with SS.
My complaint is made based on the experience accumulated continuously since 2008 in NFEU, NFNA and Fleet Mission.

understand. i am not meaning to criticize you guys.  we have all been around awhile, so i reckon ya'll are old timers too, Cat.  

so   i know you two at least are quite capable of dealing with a massive anti-sub contingent on the oposing team.  i can   sometimes.  the thing is, i do not see that it has all changed.  same shit different day

i went sub because of all the BBs  AND  CVs that hammered me when i was in the IJN DD and CL classes with my very first crew.  i thrill at sinking battleships, and love chasing down an escort-laden CV, and it is more fun every time i do it.  i remember the pHH basters that i hated back then, and having to fight sub to sub against the all time elite of subbers, winning occasionally.

the 'events',  well, we take what we can earn, right ?  i guess i am saying that subbing is STILL the most fun I can have on this game.  i've been so busy trying to raise super elites for every nation and then added china too, and i am not balls to the wall on this game every moment i am off work like i was for years and years.  but when i want to have fun i sub. PERIOD.  

when you sub, the BBs hate you, the CVs hate you, all their dogs are chasing you and some of them have pHH.    my all time ships weight/dmg sunk high in a sub is 243,000 , not so spectacular, but damn it was a riot!  oops, bad choice of words.  it was a blast.

 btw, i put pHH on every Tslot on every ship that is not a sub.  i hunt subs too sometimes.  especially the KM ones.  its funny to shock a BB occasionally too.

us subbers do get the short straw in alot of things.  to qualify pHH, you have to BUY it.  so i say it qualifies.  experience-wise, sub crews are hardest to level.  some subs will take a couple of BB blockshots, but thats a KM kindasub thing i don't wanna get into.  credit for subs sunk is, well, not good.  torpedo misses always piss me off.

BUT, NFFM has the best subs for this kind of game anywhere.