PST Time 00:00:00GMT-8
Local Server Time 00:00:00GMT+8
ID
Password
FlashGuide
FlashGuide
HA Infomation

Kriegsmarine
Forum Quick Menu

  Index

  • My thought on the 2 new KM EBBs & guns (TNF mail)

    04. 08. 2021 12:36


whitegoli

I decided to share some of my frustrations with the community, I've sent this towards TNF through mail and ticket so they can pick up on it.


I've split it due to max size being 100k bites

 

 

  • Re : My thought on the 2 new KM EBBs & guns (TNF mail)

    04. 08. 2021 12:43


whitegoli

Originally Posted by whitegoli

KM design:

Range (obvious) and orexploitation as a secondary role (mind games, stealth play through AA).
BSM:

KM BSM line is meant to learn players handling line-battles, hence BSM linegets more range as opposed to KM O project line.
Classic KM BB5+design
Pros of BSM:
  • Range
  • Decent spread
  • Decent reload
  • Balanced hitbox
  • Good gun placement for slingshot
  • Easy to angle
  • 30 angle (which means anything below will     have a higher chance of belt shots)
  • Decent velocity
  • Good shell velocity for it’s range
Cons of BSM:
  • Dmg sacrificed for range
  • Fragile(shared)
  • Average AA
  • Low Damage
  • Poor turning force but fine in line battles
  • Normal speed (39knt)
  • Must use AP on secondary slot due to     playstyle (range)
O project:

O project line is meant to learn the player to exploit their opponents, maythat be poor map awareness, stealth play, and or other exploitation methods likeacting like u retreat to isolate a potential prey.

The poorly understoodplaystyle of KM
Pros of O project
  • Good reload
  • Very good AA
  • Excellent ship speed (44-49 O project 1,     42-44 O project 2, 42-44 O project 1942)
  • Decent Damage per minute – Extremely good     damage output if HE Heavy (see below)
  • 30 angle (which means anything below will     have a higher chance of belt shots)
  • It May be fit with HE Heavy shells on secondary     slot due to gun angle and playstyle (exploiting)
  • Very good shell velocity for its range
  • Easy to angle
Cons of O project:
  • Long hitbox, may be easy to hit at times
  • Very fragile
  • Poor turn force (exceptionally poor due to     speed vs turn force)
  • Poor Range compared to BB3/4 standard (speed     makes up for it, but incapable of line fighting)



Oproject explained
Now I’d like to get tomy point, as we all know KM is known to many as a ranged nation, generallyspeaking about line battles here. NOBODY expects a KM BB to rush really, thoughthey can often play aggressively to throw their opponent off balance by diving undertheir shot (by acting like ur afraid so they engage and you can punish them)
There’s a secondary roleto KM not many make a lot of use of and this is what makes KM very flawed within current meta.

What is KM? KMsacrifices range for damage, but does that imply KM is not allowed to do more damage at closer range?

When we look at O project, the guns have a decent velocity, good reload, and since they haveangle 30’’ max, they’ll most of the time hit the belt and this is even true onmax angle. The triples(white) of the O project are very lethal guns if handled well. Their damage output is like you would expect of KM, but their Damage per minute is very high, especially when you load heavy shells into them when opponents are at closer range.
Now, this sounds much like MN playstyle, but I do not want this to be mistaken for MN playstyle. When we talk about O project, many say it is alike MN BBs, but I really do not agree there. It may be capable of rushing with brute force, it certainly isn’t madefor it since like all KM BBs, O project is extremely fragile. But it has gotvery good AA. This implies it’s an ambusher, the opponent becomes aware of theBB its presence when it’s already too late for them. The only way to get out ofthis situation is to shoot the O project, not a very easy task but doable when this ship shoots from the dark fog.

WHY is it relativelyeasy to hit?

Long hitbox, poor turnrate, and lots of muzzle flashes if used with a slingshot rush. This shows apattern of where it moves and any player with good intuition on prediction canlocate it. Though even when the ship is in sight, it is often very hard for players to deal with it. Since many mistake it for a poor BB3 and underestimate its lethality.
The speed, the AA, the fast-firing guns, and the option to use HE Heavy screams it’s an ambusher. The secondary role of KM which has kind of faded with the newly added KM BBs

KM BB4 H39

The H39 and perhaps even H44 had still this option of exploiting the opponent, and ambushing them, even Kaisercan still do it. But the drawn line stops perhaps with H39.
H39 was the last KM BB that was able to deal 50k(on rare occasions even 70k dmg with an extremely raregun bug) blows to its opponent, the guns had an angle of 34 which implies that when it goes close, it quickly drops and hits the belt. Then H39 also has the option to use Heavy shells, have 40-42 knots speed, and can use AA. Does it sound familiar? I’m sure it does. I illustrate that it was very capable of doing the same things as the O project, sacrifice range for more damage by slotting HE Heavy into the secondary, and approach out of stealth.

  • Re : My thought on the 2 new KM EBBs & guns (TNF mail)

    04. 08. 2021 12:45


whitegoli

Originally Posted by whitegoli

Newly added KM BBs past 4/5+ years
I’ll note them all downhere
  • J39
  • Stresemann
  • K39
  • BSM 1945
  • Prinz Eugen 1942
  • Scharnhorst 1942
These ships come with their standard guns and setups and share one common goal, line battle and range. Besides that, they do not offer heavy shells or are well fit with KM triples(white) except Prinz Eugen 1942.
Their reload is however respective and some of these ships allow for good AA(some of them get cut onAA), but generally, just lack the DPM which is understandable and ok for KM.Though here is what gets tricky, those ships do not offer different shell types besides HE and AP. They’re all meant to be played with range and somewhat lack the secondary role that KM had with its lower-tier ships.

  • J39 is obviously range, does have decent AA     but lacks the speed to really be effective
  • Stresemann range has good AA but lacks the     speed to be effective
  • K39, ok AA ranged due to gun placement being     further than H44, allowing for more slingshot range
  • BSM 1945, like H39 range, able to switch     shell types on secondary slot with HE Heavy, but lacks decent AA slots Therefore unable to really be effective like O project
  • Prinz Eugen 1942 no AA, long range guns just     under BB4 range, however, this ship is a special case and will go in more     deeply on this later
  • Scharnhorst 1942 ranged, decent AA     capability much like O project, guns also being triple and longer range     than that of O project triples(white)
Much of the design in these ships is very flawed especiallythe last 2 released KM BBs Eugen and Scharnhorst 1942

KM black triples problem

Nice guns, I get the idea, except I don’t think the development team and or balance team gets the idea. These guns were never meantfor range, but rather the DPM they could put out. In the past, the white triples used to have shorter range than they have now, this was because they were never meant to fight on range. However, now they’re modified, given morerange and longer reload, making them lack in DPM and since Scharnhorst is stillnot able to compete much on range like Eugen, what exactly is the idea here?

If you create guns for range with the image of guns that are meant for KM its secondary role, ok, that’s fine, but these ships are both notable to compete much on range since most opponents just beat them with that.The idea of releasing 2 more ranged KM BB3s seems very odd to me.

So why do they really suck? I mean, more ranged triples sounds awesome right?
NO

They’re extremely flawed, not only because you cannot pick more shell types, but also because they’re just modified on the range, that’s it.
If we look at the KM triples, they got a fair shell velocity with their range. So shell velocity X range seems to be well balanced.
Now when we look at the black triples, only their range has increased, but their shell velocity in balance to that hasn’t increased. This creates problems when aiming which is very unusual for KM to actually be asked to pre-aim. Especially if those are 30 angle guns.

They’re also having an increased reload for seemingly noreason, I suppose it’s done to compensate for the extra range which is a verypoor decision when you know that they are never meant to be used for range.

Converting these guns into ranged guns is an extremely weird and odd idea if you’d ask me.

White triples vs black triples

Now O project 1942 can fit the N guns of the H39(still whitetriples are better), has 1 more support slot than the new released Scharnhorst1942, why would we buy a ship with less flexibility and effectiveness?

Prinz Eugen on the other hand has a reasonable hitbox, Ifound that despite her lacking in AA, she’s much more compatible with the white KM triples. Because A) she’s small B) she got speed, she goes 47 knots withthose and C) quick reload, able to switch to heavy shells at closer rangemaking this BB extremely lethal and D) she ignores armor cuz max angle 30.

Scharnhorst1942 surprisingly seems to be performing better with the white triples too, because they’re easy to aim and it works like an Oproject with decent AA. The speed is also very respective, that being 44 knots.
The AA layout makes it less flexible than O project and gives it one less support slot, but it still performs excellent as opposed to Oproject 1942.

Though O project 1942 is still better and so it kinda renders this BB useless. If the black guns are trash and it doesn’t offer more than O project, then what is the point of it?

Prinz Eugen

Ara Ara

Prinz Eugen is a beauty of a KM BB, it performs better than both BSM when equipped with the lethal white KM triples. Every match I do in this BB
gives me a dmg score of 120k+ and dodging shells has never been so easy. The BBhas a smaller hitbox than Bismarck and yet it still goes faster than a O project,that being 47 knots. I suppose that’s a fair trade for not having AA.
Then equipped with heavy shells on the secondary slot allows this BB to be very lethal when closing in on the range.
I understand that this combination was not very intended by the development team, but it packed out pretty well.
Of course, if you really can’t miss your AA guns, you canfit KM40s and cross-fire them on 3 slots which allow for decent AA cover. Butyou’ll trade in 2 knots for that.

For now, I keep it like this and hope this may be enough information and feedback for the team.

1