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Sailor class balance
08. 27. 2011 14:52
 Recommend : 0
Vlad381
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When I started playing NF, I assumed, as you would in a balanced game, that every element of the game has something to offer. So, in my first crew (IJN) and second crew (SN) I made one support of each type including Seaman.
Now of course, I was told many times that this is a bad idea and for BB route you only need Rep and Eng. I hear Seaman and Rest sometimes find small uses in CV.
But it got me thinking (and yes I am a little bitter about it) why are those sailors useless?
Would it not make sense to allow people to make tactical decisions on their crew beyond Rep vs. Eng? It just makes me think the balance isn't right if some classes just get discarded.
Maybe the SD cap needs to be made harder to reach (or impossible to reach without Restorers because THATS WHAT THEY'RE FOR!)
Or for example, Only Repair Men add repair rate, and only Restorers add SD, not all the crew (which makes no sense).
Similarly Seaman should be made more effective so that using one is a viable choice, so that the boost he gives to all other crew makes up for the lost slot, but not so much that he is an auto-include. For example if u weren't sure if u wanted 3 rep 5 eng or 4/4 you could do 3 rep 4 eng and a Seaman and it would feel like 3.5 rep, 4.5 Eng, a half-way house.
I know a lot of things in the game don't work and probably never will (e.g. AAW stat) but the classing system is a huge pitfall for new players to whom the amount of guides and advice is bewildering. The game needs to be made so that everything is useful, or it should be removed.
What do you think.
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Re : Sailor class balance
08. 27. 2011 15:21
Invinciblor
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Originally Posted by Vlad381
Or for example, Only Repair Men add repair rate, and only Restorers add SD, not all the crew (which makes no sense).
Please no! I spent a lot of time rolling a 13/11/11 pot/rep/rest sonar and BO for my SN SS, and then delay-classing my sonar man for the extra repair and restore. It would also wreak havoc with the RN BBs at mid tier that are balanced partly on the fact that their SD is more easily capped. There was a suggestion elsewhere to raise the SD cap to 1000 or more (one of the mods remarked that raising SD much higher than it is now would invalidate a lot of crew setups and a shakeup of that size would be unwise). I don't mind that idea, but I fall into the category of "people who stand to lose invested effort" if SD mechanics are changed too much. On the other hand, I like the idea of having to make more choices and less "choices" that are clearly made for you because of the relative value of the different types of sailor. However, I've seen how that works from other games. If you give a previously under-valued class even a slight edge, lots of players will blow it out of proportion and scramble to rearrange their setups, and the status quo will simply shift to a different setup. The perceived validity of unconventional MMO setups is more or less constant, even if the design team micromanages the actual validity of each of them. Is that a reason to keep "useless" sailors useless? No. But, it requires careful and constant balancing. Where NF is at right now, there are bigger fish to fry in terms of balance.
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Re : Sailor class balance
08. 28. 2011 01:11
Vlad381
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Hey, I'm glad you agree with some of the principle even if you stand to lose a lot from it. Like I said I don't really expect SDE to do anything about it especially something that shakes up the Status Quo this much but it's nice to have a discussion about it.
Wouldn't more than 1000 SD mean you gain DP when you are hit? XD
I guess you are right about MMO setups, most things arent fully tested and small (possibly irrelevant) differences get blown into "must have best setups". I was always one to go for the unconventional though, mainly because I am lazy, and I'd accept a setup that's 90% as good as the Status Quo if it only took me 10% of the effort to get it.
In NF though I can't see a way out like that, and from what I've read I can't justify going against the Satus Quo, which is one of the things that's a shame. There needs to be a sort of 80/20 rule, where if u spend 20% of the time u can at least be 80% as good as someone who spent a long time. With NF it seems two people can spend exactly the same time and one will suck because of a small error at the start that would not seem important. Most MMOs don't punish you like that.
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Re : Sailor class balance
08. 28. 2011 03:30
Invinciblor
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Originally Posted by Vlad381
In NF though I can't see a way out like that, and from what I've read I can't justify going against the Satus Quo, which is one of the things that's a shame. There needs to be a sort of 80/20 rule, where if u spend 20% of the time u can at least be 80% as good as someone who spent a long time. With NF it seems two people can spend exactly the same time and one will suck because of a small error at the start that would not seem important. Most MMOs don't punish you like that.
I don't really follow your logic there. I get that you think the cost of making a mistake is too great, but I disagree with you that those mistakes should always be "legitimate alternative playstyles." It doesn't matter how much time you spend leveling fighter pilots on a BB, for example, that should never get you to 80% effectiveness. Mistakes are mistakes. So yeah. The point that a restorer should be useful is a valid one. They're essentially damage control teams, and someone who understands ships but not NF would be rather confused to learn that they stop being useful once your ship gets big enough. On the other hand, I think you're going too far in your justification for making them viable. My opinion is that alternative crew setups should be looked at on an individual basis and judged. "Should we make restorers useful to BBs?" If the community and designers think that's a good idea, then they can go about devising a way to do it without disrupting pre-existing crews (I have a few ideas for how that could be done, but that's irrelevant right now). That community focus is right now fixed on balancing aircraft and BB5s. Next, hopefully, will be the SS & ASW balancing. Those are all things that need to be fixed in the name of fairness, whereas I would say making restorers a legitimate crewing choice is of much less urgency.
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Re : Sailor class balance
08. 30. 2011 00:38
Taniano
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Dam, i have pair of lvl 65 US AA-Gunners. Why??? Years ago as a new player, i had a question, what sailors do i need for AA? Oh yeah, USN has AA-Gunners in sailor tree, what a silly question... Logical???
Anyway, i think im not only one and why noy to make AA-Gunners useful? Give them same REL crowth as REL-REL-REL classed Reload Gunners?
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