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Better Credit Sinks
10. 13. 2011 19:45
 Recommend : 0
Eradicator1
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There are simply too many credits in the NF market for anyone to buy anything. Demands are too high for any reasonable price to be set.
The extremely high prices cause a huge stagnation in the nf market because nobody can be reasonably expected to grind so many credits from even cv credits.
A recent sale I made proves this. A few weeks ago I sold a level 75 Russian FP +11 not boosted 50 vets and a few experts for 10 million credits on the nf marketplace.
He (and a bunch of other barely decent sailors) were gone in a couple hours, leading me to believe that this price was very good considering the NF market.
Now let's analyze this. Since it is impossible to quantify the credit's value through sailor value because so many variables are unknown, we can quantify it through game hours invested.
For any player to gain 10 million credits it would take;
100 games in a CV assuming 100k credits per game
~16 hours assuming average 10 minute games + ~8 hours assuming 5 minute wait times
200 games in a lower CV assuming 50k credits per game
~32 hours + ~16 hour wait times
500 games in a BB assuming 20k credits per game
~160 hours + ~80 hour wait times
The absurd levels of gameplay required for even what seems to be a minor investment is absurd for any player.
The way to fix this is through better credit sinks. While BB6/CV6 are reasonably good at this, they still haven't prevented the inflation of prices. This is probably because the high buy in price to BB6 or CV6 only affects players who have grinded there in the first place.
There are various other ways to take credits out of the system which I will propose here;
1. Might be small, but harbor assault fees could be thrown out of the system instead of given back; if the attacker wins, then the harbor is a much better prize than credits, if they lose than they don't deserve them back.
2. As levels increase ship hulls could sell for less and less; maybe an 80% refund on capital ship hulls rather than the full 100% would do a great deal while not affecting higher level players too much
3. Perhaps, PERHAPS buying items from the preium store for absurd numbers of credits could work (ie 10mil/$1)
And before the people who come say that "but then older players won't have their credit advantage for being here longer" I would like to say that this would make your vast credit stores more valuable in a sense.
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Re : Better Credit Sinks
10. 13. 2011 21:25
aingeal
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HA is struggling already, if you hit it with an heavy tax, its going to become a much bigger issue.
I agree prices are exagerated, but I don't believe your way would settle anything. Even more, if you allow credits to buy premium, you'll create even more inflation.
Also, new players often barely buy their next ship, especially BB and SS players. I heavily doubt taxing hull cost would be good for them.
If I study the effect of what you are proposing, you are simply wanting to reduce the net income of the game.
Its not even deflation, its at best slowing inflation. you could simply summarize it by "Reduce gain by Y %"
People with X ammount of credits still have X. Also its easy to "generate" credits selling PCV to harbor.
And if prices are that high, its because the offer fails to match the demand, and price raise to auto-regulate it.
Thats what happens in a free market, and sadly nothing can really be done about it without hitting it with laws and regulations, that normally makes it worse by creating black markets and offer shortages.
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Re : Better Credit Sinks
10. 13. 2011 22:17
Eradicator1
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Originally Posted by aingeal
HA is struggling already, if you hit it with an heavy tax, its going to become a much bigger issue.
It's just a tax that is not returned to the winning fleet, as a harbor should be enough of a reward for the winning fleet.
Originally Posted by aingeal
I agree prices are exagerated, but I don't believe your way would settle anything. Even more, if you allow credits to buy premium, you'll create even more inflation.
How does this create inflation? You're taking credits out of the system...
Originally Posted by aingeal
Also, new players often barely buy their next ship, especially BB and SS players. I heavily doubt taxing hull cost would be good for them.
That's why the proposed change would affect either capital level ships or affect greater as ship level increases. The max tax on hull selling would probably be only like 10-20%, but getting 100% is simply too much
Originally Posted by aingeal
If I study the effect of what you are proposing, you are simply wanting to reduce the net income of the game.
Its not even deflation, its at best slowing inflation. you could simply summarize it by "Reduce gain by Y %"
People with X ammount of credits still have X. Also its easy to "generate" credits selling PCV to harbor.
Credits would be lost over time, and I don't think that people are dumb enough to spend $7 for the relatively tiny amount of credits you gain from pcv
Originally Posted by aingeal
And if prices are that high, its because the offer fails to match the demand, and price raise to auto-regulate it.
Thats what happens in a free market, and sadly nothing can really be done about it without hitting it with laws and regulations, that normally makes it worse by creating black markets and offer shortages.
Except that NF is not even close to a free market. Everything is routed through the NF servers so they can regulate it as much as they want without black markets appearing...
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Re : Better Credit Sinks
10. 13. 2011 23:23
aingeal
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I won't bother re-answering every single comment.
HA are dead. The concencus is more around lifting totally the fees to declare, rather than hit it with a new tax. What is sure, is it must not get worse than now. HA isnt only getting an harbor, its getting fleet to try themselves at it, even if they think they don't have that big of a chance to defeat the defenders. That one is an established points, and refer to threads around GD for reference.
Before you try and sidetrack that argument to "But the cost isnt the only reason HA are dead!", yes, thats right, but common sense want you to at least not do anything that can potentially worsen the situation, even more when its a key element of this game, and you'd hit it for a secondary one.
And you wouldn't create a credit loss, just a lesser growth. You saw any difference when you transited from DD guns to BB guns? No? Tought so.
By FREE MARKET I'm talking economically speaking.
What rules and regulations are in place to fix a maximum trade ammount? What rules and regulations are in place to give a minimum or maximum values to sailors depending on various parameter? None.
This IS a free market in all sense of the term, where players offers and demand their own prices. Your own exemple is an exemple of that.
You OFFERED some sailors for 10 millions each. Did any rules and regulation guided you to offer them for that price?
If you have similar sailors again in your account next week, will you also sell them 10 millions? Or maybe you might try 15, since they obviously sold very fast.
And lets say they also sell, quite fast!
Well you might want to push a bit! Lets try 25 millions for the next ones!
Oh, but they are staying there...For your price, demand isn't high enough compared to the offer for someone to pay such an ammount for one. He knows he'll find it cheaper somewhere else. You'll therefore, after maybe 3-4 days lower the price to maybe 18 millions? And after a day or two, they'll sell.
In this process, SDE never intervened to set a price. They simply give you the INFRASTRUCTURE to trade, in this case trade system. So NO it isn't regulated.
Inflation comes from the fact that with each passing they, more and more credits are generated. The inflation rate depends on how much are created.
Look at one credit being a drop of water. At server start, that drop of water is part of a puddle, maybe a foot in diameter. But the more people get water, the more the puddle grow, and a few years later you get an olympic pool of drop of waters.
If I was to offer you a single drop of water, out of my puddle at start, its relative value is MUCH higher, than if you know I have an whole pool behind me.
Thats inflation. And there are no way to stop it, really. Other than crash the economy.
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Re : Better Credit Sinks
10. 14. 2011 08:19
KingCong
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you argue that credit sinks only tax a few players have access to BB6 yet you want to tax HA participants which makes up an even small population of the NF community.
Imo combine this idea with the TK thread. not for exp but credits. High level players likely to Tk by accident dont suffer as much from a few K credit loss. But to the dumb CL, 5K can mean not being able to afford his new ship. Of course make it harsher for the BB for no reason.
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Re : Better Credit Sinks
10. 14. 2011 18:21
Eradicator1
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Originally Posted by KingCong
you argue that credit sinks only tax a few players have access to BB6 yet you want to tax HA participants which makes up an even small population of the NF community.
Imo combine this idea with the TK thread. not for exp but credits. High level players likely to Tk by accident dont suffer as much from a few K credit loss. But to the dumb CL, 5K can mean not being able to afford his new ship. Of course make it harsher for the BB for no reason.
Well here comes mister biased. BB players have more credits and would therefore be more apt to support a marginally higher cost.
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Re : Better Credit Sinks
10. 15. 2011 00:34
aingeal
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Originally Posted by Eradicator1
Originally Posted by KingCong
you argue that credit sinks only tax a few players have access to BB6 yet you want to tax HA participants which makes up an even small population of the NF community.
Imo combine this idea with the TK thread. not for exp but credits. High level players likely to Tk by accident dont suffer as much from a few K credit loss. But to the dumb CL, 5K can mean not being able to afford his new ship. Of course make it harsher for the BB for no reason.
Well here comes mister biased. BB players have more credits and would therefore be more apt to support a marginally higher cost.
you are so good avoiding arguments that prove you wrong, you prolly beat most wives on that, For the records, Credits are generated by CV players, and BB players that grow rich do so by selling crew to CV players that create an high demand for those services. BB do not generate enough credits nowaday to pay for the BB6 at 120 without outside help or income source.
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Re : Better Credit Sinks
10. 15. 2011 00:45
ljsevern
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Originally Posted by KingCong
you argue that credit sinks only tax a few players have access to BB6 yet you want to tax HA participants which makes up an even small population of the NF community.
Imo combine this idea with the TK thread. not for exp but credits. High level players likely to Tk by accident dont suffer as much from a few K credit loss. But to the dumb CL, 5K can mean not being able to afford his new ship. Of course make it harsher for the BB for no reason.
How about this; Low level ships penalised by exp, high level by credits.
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Re : Better Credit Sinks
10. 15. 2011 00:56
aingeal
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Originally Posted by ljsevern
Originally Posted by KingCong
you argue that credit sinks only tax a few players have access to BB6 yet you want to tax HA participants which makes up an even small population of the NF community.
Imo combine this idea with the TK thread. not for exp but credits. High level players likely to Tk by accident dont suffer as much from a few K credit loss. But to the dumb CL, 5K can mean not being able to afford his new ship. Of course make it harsher for the BB for no reason.
How about this; Low level ships penalised by exp, high level by credits.
Main issue bout TK penalty is a way to equally punish those that cross fighting ships for fun, and those that shoot other people for fun. Both are equally stupid imo.
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Re : Better Credit Sinks
10. 17. 2011 13:04
KingCong
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Originally Posted by Eradicator1
Well here comes mister biased.
BB players have more credits and would therefore be more apt to support a marginally higher cost.
i think he's agreeing with me... the harsher punishment is because a single salvo on a crossing CL can kill it while CL guns do essentially nothing that will hinder a team. Also because the BB should have better awareness. however BB players have more credit based solely on the fact that they have played more games. Making end's meet with a new ship can still be a challenge for some, especially with events boosting exp. Essentially BB gameplay is the credit sink. It is just because most players have a CV3-4 to supplement credit gain.
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