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Imperial Japanese Navy

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  • IJN Survivability

    11. 03. 2011 11:43


Vlad381
People always talk about IJN as having "paper ships" but how true is this? I know they have the weakest armour in game, but given that a lot of people in most other nations don't armour at all (or bare minimum) and only a few ships can truly AW does this fact actually make much difference?

In terms of DP ships of same tier tend to have similar DP values.

So what exactly is it that makes IJN ships have low survivability, or is this a myth? I've heard people talk about "submergence" in other topics but I have no idea how this works.

To be honest I'm just curious to understand how all this works =)

 

  • Re : IJN Survivability

    11. 03. 2011 13:04


Sonlirain
1 - Lower submergeance. it's a strange stat that affects how much damage you recieve. Notice how a FF shooting at a BB5 deals 2 dmg while the same FF shooting at a CA (with 900 SD) will deal about 10 damage.
That's submergeance at work. and KM along with IJN have less of it compared to RN.
However from what i know BB6s all have the same submergeance.

2 - IJN ships tend to have wide hitboxes (especially BB4- 5) so more shells tend to hit (you would be suprised how thin lion 2 is when sompared to SY.).

3 - IJN supports are sub par. Slower repairs = less shells you can take over the course of the game and the longer you have to repair if you decide to fall back.

  • Re : IJN Survivability

    11. 04. 2011 05:58


Vlad381
thanks for the info, didnt know about the repairs!

is there somewhere you can look up submergeance values or is this something only devs and test server people know?

  • Re : IJN Survivability

    11. 04. 2011 10:18


Sonlirain
Originally Posted by Vlad381

thanks for the info, didnt know about the repairs!

is there somewhere you can look up submergeance values or is this something only devs and test server people know?


I never saw any submergeance value charts. All i know about it is that it exists and apparently works.
More experienced players may know more about it tho.

  • Re : IJN Survivability

    11. 04. 2011 11:28


danita
Originally Posted by Sonlirain

1 - Lower submergeance. it's a strange stat that affects how much damage you recieve. Notice how a FF shooting at a BB5 deals 2 dmg while the same FF shooting at a CA (with 900 SD) will deal about 10 damage.
That's submergeance at work. and KM along with IJN have less of it compared to RN.
However from what i know BB6s all have the same submergeance.

2 - IJN ships tend to have wide hitboxes (especially BB4- 5) so more shells tend to hit (you would be suprised how thin lion 2 is when sompared to SY.).

3 - IJN supports are sub par. Slower repairs = less shells you can take over the course of the game and the longer you have to repair if you decide to fall back.

Oh boy did you make a few of mistakes there:

@1: That difference in damage pop-ups between a BB and a CA isn't submergence it's Soft Defense at work.
In actual fact a CA has a far better submergence than a BB. Submergence as we use it today is how well a ship stands up to AP damage, all shells do either all AP damage ( duh, AP shells) or do AP and HE damage combined ( LHE,NHE, HHE). A ships max displacement determines how well it stands up vs AP damage. A CA has far less max displacement than a BB, thus receives a lot less AP damage from a shell.
But yes a lot of RN ships have a lower submergence than IJN or KM ships and indeed all BB6 have the same submergence

@3: IJN support is far from subpar. Obviously RN has the best repair rate with the +2 rep for every sailor and chf repairer, but after the USN IJN has actually the 3rd repair rate. The MN, KM and SN repairer are all worse than the IJN repairer.

www.opennavyfield.com has a list of submergence values ( some might be off a bit due to patches) here: http://www.opennavyfield.com/smf/index.php?topic=236.0

  • Re : IJN Survivability

    11. 04. 2011 12:14


Vlad381
thanks Danita for clearing that up!

Lemme get this straight, so low submergeance means they take more AP damage (so more damage from all shells) but doesn't affect HE damage (obviously HE shells only).

but if the CA has the same SD as the BB (since SD depends only on crew not ship) then the CA would take less damage from an AP-shell hit?

  • Re : IJN Survivability

    11. 04. 2011 13:23


Sonlirain
Originally Posted by Vlad381

thanks Danita for clearing that up!

Lemme get this straight, so low submergeance means they take more AP damage (so more damage from all shells) but doesn't affect HE damage (obviously HE shells only).

but if the CA has the same SD as the BB (since SD depends only on crew not ship) then the CA would take less damage from an AP-shell hit?


I took a look at the chart danita posted and stand corrected.

The smaller the ship the less AP damage it will take.
A Yamato has high submergeance so damage recieved is higher compared to a Lion II (who takes less damage from the AP component) but not nearly enough to justify using AP shells against a Yammy.
And since shell damage is counted from both AP damage (from shell weight and caliber) and HE (damage listed when selecting ammo) having lower submergeance makes the ship more resistant to the AP part of the damage from both AP shells and HE.

And subs that have very little submergeance are almost immune to AP damage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA0-Zx8zqrQ

  • Re : IJN Survivability

    11. 05. 2011 02:48


Vlad381
OK makes sense now.

1) higher submergeance = bad

2) bigger ships have higher submergeance

3) IJN ships have on average more submergeance than their counterparts of same tier therefore take a bit more AP damage from all shell types.

BUT

4) IJN support is not sub-par

=)

  • Re : IJN Survivability

    11. 05. 2011 22:49


angus725
Anyone ever looked at displacement values?

The higher the Max displacement, the more damage a ship will take from the same shell.

It's usually the displacement value that IJN suffers from.

  • Re : IJN Survivability

    11. 06. 2011 20:06


V2CxBongRipz
The secret is dont get hit. Having the best AA and good speed helps too.

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