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  • Stalingrad survivability

    08. 23. 2011 00:35


Benser33
The stalingrads submergenge, or something that affects its survivability, seems quite wrong.

I've experienced myself, and seen on others, it being sunk rather more easily than other bb4s. It might be my imagination, but it does seem very vulnerable, especially factoring in its speed.

What are other peoples opinions? I personally feel this isnt quite right. I would love for its range or damage to make up for being so easily sunk, but it doesnt because of its poor maneuverability and its often eratic spread.

 

  • Re : Stalingrad survivability

    08. 25. 2011 03:27


Benser33
Well fair enough, if everyone else believes its still too powerful right now, I know its the highest level ship i've used so far so I really dont know anything comparitively about its survivability, it just felt to me like it was broken, like most any other ship could take it out unless you run constantly because everything is faster and god forbid you ever try rush cos if you need to turn back youre screwed.

18 turning for may be pretty decent on paper, relatively it is not 'pretty decent'.

Like I said, it feels broken. Sinks others too easy, gets sunk too easy. Im sure that if SDE can break its offensive capability then they can its defensive aswell. I just dislike being sunk with frustrating ease early on by poor decision making, or sometimes just bad luck, and then watching other bbs trying to learn more about how they behave and how I can improve, and watching them take hits and hits and running off... turning better, retreating faster, moving in, dodging. Then, it's my turn again, and just nothing...

Changing both front and rear gun angles independently to land accurate hits while non parallel to my target is something ive recently started doing, which I'm not terribly good at yet, but I have done it a few times just to try not take a full salvo and it just doesnt seem to make any difference. The stalingrad might have superior range but its only MAX range, it does nothing from stopping other ships negating that bonus because it simply isnt maneuverable enough, then it just has its damage IF the player knows their angles.

I dunno, maybe I should just grind my UK crew instead, I was just asking if anyone else felt it was a bit wrong. I'm not saying it should be a tank, just that it seems to have dropped too low in terms of its defense. But like I said, 'seems', I dunno really. If its working as intended defensively I'll just have to make do. It's alot better than the Kronstadt, thats for sure...

TL:DR fair enough, just my thoughts

  • Re : Stalingrad survivability

    08. 25. 2011 04:34


Willg210
Originally Posted by Benser33

Well fair enough, if everyone else believes its still too powerful right now, I know its the highest level ship i've used so far so I really dont know anything comparitively about its survivability, it just felt to me like it was broken, like most any other ship could take it out unless you run constantly because everything is faster and god forbid you ever try rush cos if you need to turn back youre screwed.

18 turning for may be pretty decent on paper, relatively it is not 'pretty decent'.

Like I said, it feels broken. Sinks others too easy, gets sunk too easy. Im sure that if SDE can break its offensive capability then they can its defensive aswell. I just dislike being sunk with frustrating ease early on by poor decision making, or sometimes just bad luck, and then watching other bbs trying to learn more about how they behave and how I can improve, and watching them take hits and hits and running off... turning better, retreating faster, moving in, dodging. Then, it's my turn again, and just nothing...

Changing both front and rear gun angles independently to land accurate hits while non parallel to my target is something ive recently started doing, which I'm not terribly good at yet, but I have done it a few times just to try not take a full salvo and it just doesnt seem to make any difference. The stalingrad might have superior range but its only MAX range, it does nothing from stopping other ships negating that bonus because it simply isnt maneuverable enough, then it just has its damage IF the player knows their angles.

I dunno, maybe I should just grind my UK crew instead, I was just asking if anyone else felt it was a bit wrong. I'm not saying it should be a tank, just that it seems to have dropped too low in terms of its defense. But like I said, 'seems', I dunno really. If its working as intended defensively I'll just have to make do. It's alot better than the Kronstadt, thats for sure...

TL:DR fair enough, just my thoughts


What kind of supports are you running?
How much SD do you have?
What it your top speed?

  • Re : Stalingrad survivability

    08. 25. 2011 09:02


Blazer4show
Speeds are relatively balanced at BB4 level, with a SW L1 really being the outlier.

Vanny - 42 (iirc and this is with fat crew)
L1 - 47 (SW setup)
Iowa - 42 no bulge, 40 normal
H39 - 42 under crazy circumstances, 40 normal
Yammy - 40
Not sure where the Rich falls.

Put simply though 40 knots in a BB4 should not be considered "too slow".

Watching players just taking hits hit hits and then running away, to keep this in line with the stalingrad these are likely the players running Armor. Not many [intelligent] players are going to just take hit hit hit and then run.

Range advantage in the tiers is going to be only at max angle (or in the case of 45 degree gun maybe up to about 5 degrees difference (last 5 degrees is a very minor adjustment). For ANY ship to be sucessfull you need to know your angles. That does not change with the Stalingrad or any specific ship.

I'm really not trying to be harsh, and particularly as you've stated its your highest ship so far it is understandable that you are using what you see in game for comparison. Over time the more crews and ships you play the differences (strengths and weaknesses) become easier to see from playing and experience rather than watching. And to be fair, the Stalingrad is the only bb4 I don't have nor have played.

  • Re : Stalingrad survivability

    08. 25. 2011 09:33


richardphat
Originally Posted by Benser33

Well fair enough, if everyone else believes its still too powerful right now, I know its the highest level ship i've used so far so I really dont know anything comparitively about its survivability, it just felt to me like it was broken, like most any other ship could take it out unless you run constantly because everything is faster and god forbid you ever try rush cos if you need to turn back youre screwed.

18 turning for may be pretty decent on paper, relatively it is not 'pretty decent'.

Like I said, it feels broken. Sinks others too easy, gets sunk too easy. Im sure that if SDE can break its offensive capability then they can its defensive aswell. I just dislike being sunk with frustrating ease early on by poor decision making, or sometimes just bad luck, and then watching other bbs trying to learn more about how they behave and how I can improve, and watching them take hits and hits and running off... turning better, retreating faster, moving in, dodging. Then, it's my turn again, and just nothing...

Changing both front and rear gun angles independently to land accurate hits while non parallel to my target is something ive recently started doing, which I'm not terribly good at yet, but I have done it a few times just to try not take a full salvo and it just doesnt seem to make any difference. The stalingrad might have superior range but its only MAX range, it does nothing from stopping other ships negating that bonus because it simply isnt maneuverable enough, then it just has its damage IF the player knows their angles.

I dunno, maybe I should just grind my UK crew instead, I was just asking if anyone else felt it was a bit wrong. I'm not saying it should be a tank, just that it seems to have dropped too low in terms of its defense. But like I said, 'seems', I dunno really. If its working as intended defensively I'll just have to make do. It's alot better than the Kronstadt, thats for sure...

TL:DR fair enough, just my thoughts



I have my bismarck with 18 turning force prebuff with the gneisenau set. It has bb2 range, can't take hit, no range, big hitbox. I manage very well to get 100k game easily, 38 knost with crap engineer.

I've seen angus in his 40 knots and 18 turning force Naggy raping BB rooms and GB.

I've seen shipmurderer in his Fuso with 17 turninf force and 39 knots back there, raping GB.

On paper and in game, they are both fantastic. One day you'll realize what I mean ;)

I understand you feel something is wrong. But you really need someone in your server to help you and coaching you. Because I am saying this to you since, you are nice, I am certain that your BB gameplay isn't solid enough.

The ship can rush so like any ship in NF. I will take in consideration that you know when to rush.
Also, do you use AA?
All SN BB ship have great T slot, and you can mount fantastic AA.

  • Re : Stalingrad survivability

    08. 25. 2011 13:19


Benser33
Originally Posted by Willg210

What kind of supports are you running?
How much SD do you have?
What it your top speed?


3 evbe repairers, lvl 91-92
5 evbe engineers, lvl 92-96

900 SD

Top speed is 40, with 70k bulge is 39 (thats my standard setup), with AA guns is 35, maybe more now I've leveled my engis a little more, but not likely.

  • Re : Stalingrad survivability

    08. 25. 2011 13:24


Benser33
Originally Posted by richardphat
But you really need someone in your server to help you and coaching you. Because I am saying this to you since, you are nice, I am certain that your BB gameplay isn't solid enough...

...Also, do you use AA?
All SN BB ship have great T slot, and you can mount fantastic AA.


Aye, I'm only at like 4k games and I'm sure about 3k of those are blitz from back when I used to love doing dd wars and owning blitz with a moltke and mogami ca YEARS ago, but I've recently joined SC and I'm getting loads of help there, I'm doing hundreds times better now than I was for a long time with only a little help.

And I can use AA, I have a pair of lvl 96 elite reload gunners, but even though the stalingrad has brilliant AA capability and I love the SD-2s, I just do not like getting farmed because I'm not paying attention while AAing or get dominated speed-wise, not while I'm still getting angles right.

But, I average about 70 attack each game. Sometimes 100k+, sometimes 30k, you know it varies, its a ship I'm capable of using right now, it's not exactly hard to use, its just unforgiving, or in my lack of experience it seemed that way, being relatively easier to sink that other ships of its level or even my previous ships...

  • Re : Stalingrad survivability

    08. 25. 2011 16:06


phantom3553
Originally Posted by Blazer4show

Speeds are relatively balanced at BB4 level, with a SW L1 really being the outlier.

Vanny - 42 (iirc and this is with fat crew)
L1 - 47 (SW setup)
Iowa - 42 no bulge, 40 normal
H39 - 42 under crazy circumstances, 40 normal
Yammy - 40
Not sure where the Rich falls.


richie falls somewhere 45

  • Re : Stalingrad survivability

    08. 25. 2011 19:33


richardphat
Do you go north? South?

Don't go south if you aren't ready. That's the bb5/bb6 field.
I don't suggest you to go north either, sometime, you never know some farming bb5 go north just to rape low lvl ship.

My advice, go middle, pay attention to the map.
If it doesn't help, give me a shout. I'll try to figure out how to give you a hand. I might jump on Nebraska.

  • Re : Stalingrad survivability

    08. 26. 2011 03:21


Benser33
Originally Posted by richardphat

Do you go north? South?

Don't go south if you aren't ready. That's the bb5/bb6 field.
I don't suggest you to go north either, sometime, you never know some farming bb5 go north just to rape low lvl ship.

My advice, go middle, pay attention to the map.
If it doesn't help, give me a shout. I'll try to figure out how to give you a hand. I might jump on Nebraska.


I was advised to start mid and head north, I do sometimes start simply north, its not hard to scout well enough to just see whats headed north at the start. I go south only if im on B and everyone was afk and noone else went south, unless theres a bb6 on A.

Generally, going middle and improving awareness is what I'm trying to do, so if I'm wrong in how I feel about the stalingrad then I'll just keep with it and improve.

  • Re : Stalingrad survivability

    09. 07. 2011 07:23


hiroito
Originally Posted by Benser33

Like I said, Id love for that range or damage to make up for it but it just doesnt. Especially not against bb5s where, when playing defensively, it would be nice to atleast survive enough to crawl away... which it cannot do IF it even survives the hit.


What?

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