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  • Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    05. 01. 2014 20:55


jedizorro

Have been using this EBB for a while and I would have to say, putting QV aside, it is the best UK BB for GB in which I have had tremendous fun.



---Basic Stats---
I'll begin with stats anlysis where a scale of 1-10 will be used (10 being the best). The comparison is against all UK BBs (BB6 EXCLUDED).

DP: 9.0/10
-- As an EBB4.5, you can't complain over the DP of 27800.

DISPLACEMENT: 7.0/10
-- It doesn't have enough displacement to run as an AW, but enough for reaching speed cap with AA/PHH ability.

AA: 7.0/10
-- All I can say is AA is usable on this ship.

AIRCRAFT SPACE: 8.0/10
-- 4 T5 scouts. Nicely controlled, they can survive the GB.

TURNING FORCE: 6.0/10
-- Has a turning force of 19, about average of all UK BBs.

GUN RANGE: 9.0/10
--
Standard BB4 range; only outranged by UK BB5.

GUN RELOAD: 10/10
--
17.92 seconds; fastest reload time in UK BB4/5 tiers.

GUN ANGLE: 10/10
-- 30 degrees; shortest shell-flying time.

SHELL DAMAGE: 9.5/10
-- Vanguard 1946 makes impressive damage because the shells for its own 15*2 guns are heavier than that for regular Vanguard. A full salvo to any non-AW BB is around 32K to 35K, therefore it can sink any BB5 with 2 full salvos (except AW LionII), and any BB with 3.

SHELL SPREAD: 8.0/10
-- Not as converged as UK 16*3/18*3 series but definitely usable.

HITBOX: 9.5/10
-- Smallest hitbox in UK BB4/5 tiers.

SPEED: 9.0/10
-- One of the fastest UK BBs; can run 25/42 knts without compromising firepower, AA ability, OH or repair rate. See screenshot below. My Vanguard 1946 setup:
Engineers * 7; basic stats = 9-11/9-10/12; late-classed; fully vetted; lvl120.
Main Gunners * 2; basic stats = Elite Repairer; late-classed; fully vetted; lvl120. 
Scout; basic stats = 11/11/11; on-time classed; 100 vets; lvl120.
BO; a new sailor being levelled up;
AA Gunners *2; new sailors being levelled up




---Advantages & Disadvantages---
The only disadvantage of this ship in GB, I would say, is its BB4 range. But one should really try to leverage its advantage as a UK ship: fast repair and long OH time, due to 1 extra support slot than other nations [CORRECTION: What I meant was Vanguard 1946 has same number of support slots as other nations' BB5s], and UK national bonus on repair. Actually, because of these, Vanguard 1946 has the potential to be the best (non-BB6) BB for GB, among all nations. This makes Vanguard 1946 a monster in late games when everyone else tends to run out of OH. As shown in screenshots below, I had made comebacks, in multiple games, as one of the last few standing BBs and sunk all enemy ships (including enemy BB6). Some say a blind BB is a dead BB; I say a BB out of OH is a dead BB, too.

Why Vanguard 1946 is a better ship to play in GB than LionII in my opinion:
-- I personally prefer Vanguard 1946 to LionII, which is why you guys hardly see me in my LionII on the sea any more. Honestly they are both good ships, and I am not saying that LionII will lose a 1v1 fight against Vanguard 1946 given the same sailors and same player skills. However, Vanguard 1946 has following advantages over LionII in GB:
1) Vanguard 1946 is faster (42 knts compared to 39 knts SW LionII), has smaller hitbox, which helps it get in and out of a fight more easily.

2) Shorter shell-flying time because of 30-degree gun, hence more controllable when both rusing and run-gunning

3) Significantly faster gun reload (17.92 sec compared to 19.50 sec). Chances are that you can fire 2 salvos with Vanguard 1946, but only 1 salvo with LionII.

4) LionII is more likely to draw attention from enemies. If a LionII and Vanguard 1946 are at your enemies' range at the same time, I bet most enemies, be them SS/CV/BB players, will choose to attack LionII first (which actually they should). All I'm saying is there will be less firing opportunities for LionII because it needs to dodge SS' torps and CV's bombers more often, which also consumes LionII's OH considerably. As a matter of fact, with the same crew I put on Vanguard 1946, my LionII can still make 250K+ games, but at a rate that is much, much lower than Vanguard 1946, mostly because I run out of OH more easily and so I can't chase the easy targets in late games (e.g. enemy CVs, etc).


Three effective ways for Vanguard 1946 to make damage in GB against BB4 tier and above:
1) Regular sling-shooting against BB4s.

2) Look for enemy scouts near you and make sure enemy is blind; or make sure your target BB is shooting at someone else. Slow down your ship as necessary and pull it parallel to your enemy to maximize hit rate. With 2 full salvos, 90% of BBs on the sea will be sunken. And the internal between 2 salvos is only 17.92*0.4 = 7.2 sec. 

3) Rush in zigzag and use sling-shooting when your enemy is low on OH. This works really well on BB5/BB6 with 40+ degree guns. Be careful with BBs with 30-degree guns though... Try rushing with your teammates and SS in such case.



---Bottom Line---
If you have got good sailors, go for this ship. It still takes some skills, but it's worth everything it costs.



---GB Screenshots---
--Went for south each game;
--No smoke used (but my teammate might have thrown a smoke for me occasionally);
--No ship tuning items used;
--230K+ damage - about 1 out of every 6 games
--200K+ damage - about 1 out of every 3 games
--Average damage per game is about 150K


 

  • Re : Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    06. 12. 2014 11:05


skywalker001

Originally Posted by EricIdle

Originally Posted by whuvir888

Any difference between soft gunners and gunners classed ontime when using them. 

With acc and rel caps reached and all those vets? Of course not.

The point of making those soft gunners is to get more than 3kk repair per gunner.


Ok difference between soft gunners and on-time classed gunners:
1) Soft gunners are much lighter,
2) Soft gunners give you 3million repair per gunner
3) Soft guneers give you a few hundreds of soft defense per gunner

By having soft gunners you don't need any repairer for your BB crew. Meanwhile, you'll be very happy to see how these gunners fit your DD/CL/CA/CV/SS when you need them (to either level up new crew or just having fun) 

  • Re : Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    02. 26. 2015 00:04


ussnavy213

When I first played NF,I refused to join UK but USN.But now I'm on my way to QV,after nebby.
I think it's the  30 degree,good full salvo,and fast speed makes Vanguard 1946 a good ship,although full vets is awsome.When I have a new ebb cuppon,I shall get a Vanguard 1946. : ) 

  • Re : Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    02. 27. 2015 00:05


joris92

GUN RANGE: 9.0/10
-- 
Standard BB4 range; only outranged by UK BB5.

You need to edit this little mistake ;p

  • Re : Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    04. 01. 2015 11:30


jedizorro

Originally Posted by joris92

GUN RANGE: 9.0/10
-- 
Standard BB4 range; only outranged by UK BB5.

You need to edit this little mistake ;p


In my title I said "BB6 excluded", and I'm only comparing Vanguard1946 to all UK ships. I cannot recall any other non-bb6 UK ship that outranges this one...

  • Re : Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    04. 01. 2015 13:05


joris92

Originally Posted by jedizorro

Originally Posted by joris92

GUN RANGE: 9.0/10
-- 
Standard BB4 range; only outranged by UK BB5.

You need to edit this little mistake ;p


In my title I said "BB6 excluded", and I'm only comparing Vanguard1946 to all UK ships. I cannot recall any other non-bb6 UK ship that outranges this one...



Didnt know you only meant UK BBs. I believe the Temeraire does outrange this EBB though. 

  • Re : Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    04. 01. 2015 17:54


jedizorro

Originally Posted by joris92

Originally Posted by jedizorro

Originally Posted by joris92

GUN RANGE: 9.0/10
-- 
Standard BB4 range; only outranged by UK BB5.

You need to edit this little mistake ;p


In my title I said "BB6 excluded", and I'm only comparing Vanguard1946 to all UK ships. I cannot recall any other non-bb6 UK ship that outranges this one...



Didnt know you only meant UK BBs. I believe the Temeraire does outrange this EBB though. 



Temeraire range is equivalent to bb5, but yes the background and context of my post is all UK.

I wouldn't give Vanguard1946 so high a rating if I compared it to other nations.

MN Ebb5.5 Thermidor outperforms Vanguard1946 almost in every aspect.

  • Re : Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    04. 16. 2015 11:30


jedizorro

Originally Posted by Pyrofiend

Why late class engineers? That's pretty useless since you gain sailor growth and ability for classing on time.

Your gunners are completely unnecessary. You save 145 tons doing it the way you did over regular gunners. There are probably 2 ships tops that 145t will make a difference. You're barely at the accuracy cap. You also need over 220 vets to reach the reload cap at level 120.

I don't know why you've gone so overboard trying to get repair ability when you would repair cap with your 3 repairers easily anyways. Hell with the amount of vets on your crew, you could probably reach the repair cap with 0 repairers even if you had classed the engineers on time.


Edit:

I did some math on your engineers vs on-time classed. If you had classed the engineers on time and got them to 340 vets with max experts, you would have over 450 seconds of overheat. But wait, classing on time gives you more total sailors. The max amount of vets for an on-time classed 120 UK engineer is 360 (rounded down). With 360 vets and max experts, you could have had over 470 seconds of overheat.


All right let me show you my main gunner and engie. They are not optimally late-classed but near optimal.
Let's try getting the whole picture here, with my crew (gunner*2) + (engie*7)
Total Weight=399*2+477*7=4137
Total Repair Ability: 1986*(290*4+436)*2 + 1998*(340*4+528)*7=32.7M
Total OH: 3374*(340*4+528)*7/110000=405 sec

Now please give the 3 stats of your on-time classed crew. I bet given your combination of engie+repairer+gunner, it's impossible for you to beat all 3 stats at same time.

This is the reason why, as you depicted, I have gone so overboard on late-classing, because if you notice carefully from my screenshots, my Vanguard goes 42Knts, with full AA and some armor, and with repair cap. If I on-time classed my engies I would have 10% more OH time but I will not sacrifice repair cap for this 10% more OH, because that's just not worth it. If I put one repairer and 6 engies, then the total OH time will be even less than 405 seconds, let alone to say the repair cap is probably not reached either, and the total crew weight is probably higher, too.

There are other reasons to go for late-classed crew:
1) A single gunner gives 260 SD, 3M repair ability, and only 399 ton in weight. A single engie gives 442 SD and 3.8M repair ability. If you put 2 such gunners and 1 such engie on any low-level ship then you get 900 SD instantly, with 1 minute of OH time and ~100 dp/sec repair rate. This will make a very powerful escort DD/CL/CV when you level up new crew.

2) Late-classed engies are perfect for SS and almost the only way to achieve repair cap on SS, without sacrificing too much OH time.

3) Except for pilots, the later you class your sailors, the less crew the sailors will have. And it's been confirmed that, the less crew each sailor has, the higher chance experts can be converted to vets.
leve

  • Re : Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    03. 13. 2016 20:19


dpld11

Vanguard 1946 requires a level 96 Bridge Officer but the special guns require level 98 gunners.  When my Bridge Officer reaches level 96 my gunners will also be level 96 or maybe level 95.  If I sell the Vanguard's special guns to replace them with ones I can use, will I be able to buy back the special guns when my gunners reach level 98?

  • Re : Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    03. 14. 2016 07:42


austinpage

Originally Posted by dpld11

Vanguard 1946 requires a level 96 Bridge Officer but the special guns require level 98 gunners.  When my Bridge Officer reaches level 96 my gunners will also be level 96 or maybe level 95.  If I sell the Vanguard's special guns to replace them with ones I can use, will I be able to buy back the special guns when my gunners reach level 98?


I would suggest lvling your gunners to get ahead of your BO. 10 levels ahead will give you much better spread. At level gunners may not be all that great.
I would hold off on the Vanguard1946 until your gunners are adequate. I would not suggest putting lower level guns on.

  • Re : Vanguard 1946 - Best UK BB for GB (BB6 EXCLUDED)

    12. 15. 2019 19:34


rigometal_

Exelente post Jedizorro

Es un barco muy equilibrado capas de mantener a raya a cualquier bb5 o bb5,5  a diferencia del HMS Vanguard de linea considero que es de 1946, tiene una pegada mas solida, capas de pegar criticos, las balas caen mas juntas, es muy divertido usarlo me considero un Vanguard lover, xD lo unico que no me gusta es el precaria armadura que puede cagar ,el Vanny normal puede llevar mucha ams armadura sin embargo le quita velocidad llegando a 37 knt mientras el Vanny 1946 le cabe menos pero full va a 40 knt muchos creen que no sirve ponerle armadura pero ERROR yo lo lleno de belt armor 10,0 a distancia media puede resistir disparos que a cualquier barco lo darian de baja, y resiste de esta forma bastante bien los torpedos, esa resistencia, rango, velocidad lo hacen realmente un barco vanguardista, es dificil entrar en rango contra un vanguard 1946 a veces contra 3 bb5 e podido mantener la linea y de vez en cuando lo saco para un HA en una buena partida se puede bajar muchos buques y hacer mucho daño ecxelente para subir de lvl otros marinos ya que se desempeña muy bien sin la tripulacion completa con 3 ENG 4 REP o 4 Eng y 3 Rep siempre y cuando sean lvl 125 y los demas slot para los marinos de otra nacion o que esten bajos



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