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GBII - Role of CVs
05. 16. 2011 11:01

Ultra_Dog	This is a rough attempt to illustrate the role of CVs in GB2. I run a UK Malta CV (CV5) or UK Illustrius (PCV). My BO is L116. I am not a noob. Here is how I see the role of CV. I am open to suggestions if my "opinion" is wrong. Being a Flagship has only a couple of differences from non-flag CVs. Assuming the game splits with 20/8, these are your primary and secondary responsibilities and objectives: 1) Protect BBs. This means keeping fighters up and available to intercept bombers (DB/TBs). Keep an eye out for messages from team mates about "incoming bombers" or other problems. 2) Destroy Scouts. This means shooting down enemy scouts that provide sight/vision for enemy to see your team. 3) Destroy enemy Fighters. This is the hard part. High level fighters will eat your fighters up, but you have to send your guys up anyway. Even T1s can take out T4s, if you have enough of them. Don't "save" your fighters during the game, get them up and in action during the entire game. If you burn through all your fighters, just accept that as the cost of doing war. 4) Scouting duties. It is NOT the responsibility of CVs to provide scouting duty. However, if you don't your team may lose. Wasting fighters on scouting duty is the cost of the battle to win. Most scouts sent up get eaten up by enemy fighters or blasted by AA. If enemy fighter coverage is strong, your BBs can't send their own scouts up through the thicket of fighters and vision/sight is unavailable. That also means sending fighters on missions to provide sight/vision with no return for fuel. You have to do that. Of course, if you are low on fighters, they need to return for your own protection, but most CVs pack enough fighters that you can afford to lose most of them. 5) Bombing duties. Always keep a TB or DB available. Let the BBs handle the destruction of the enemy forces. Use your TB and DBs selectively and as necessary to ensure victory, don't waste bombers on easy targets that the BBs will get anyway, use them for long-range targets (enemy CVs) that are out of range of BBs' guns. Again, don't expect them to return to ship, they are expendable. 6) Flagship duties. Don't get sunk. That means maintaining Fighter protection from enemy bombers, bomber protection from enemy subs/ships, and always bring an escort with a sonarman and AA setups. You should pack Hedgehogs to protect you against subs (your most dangerous enemy). Don't take too many risks and don't sit in one spot, move north, south, and change position constantly. What to do when starting the game: 1) Launch your fighters and assert dominance in air superiority. (see items 1-3 above). Only after air superiority is achieved should you consider bombing strategies. If you can't get air superiority, then your bombers will never reach their target anyway. 2) Stay away from the firing (BB) line. You need to be a good distance back from the battleships, as they need to maneuver and don't want you in their way. Keep your escort away from them too. If an enemy BB moves in quickly, you could fall inside their gun range and be toast. YOU WILL BE THE PRIMARY TARGET, IF AVAILABLE, TO THE ENEMY. Also, enemy SS will abandon hunting BBs and go straight for you. 3) Be near the firing (BB) line. This means work with the BBs, but not too close, help them with your fighter coverage and defense. If you are too far back, then it takes a while for your fighters to get over your own BBs, you can lose a friendly BB due to your tardy arrival. Take advantage of your team's AA and ASW supports in providing cover. 4) Help your team achieve victory. This means adapting to the changing dynamics of the game. Work towards identifying and supporting destruction of the strongest (BB6) ships the enemy has. Keep your enemy blind from your team's ships and keep the enemy under surveillance constantly. TBs are one of the only a few weapons that work against submerged submarines. Learn how to manually control them and your team will appreciate their work. Also, use your bombers to eliminate support ships (ASW/AA). If your team's subs are in danger from ASW, try and help them by taking out the DD/CL. NOTE TO BBs: It would be really nice if BBs helped anyone other than themselves. If BBs would hit the AA or ASW ships (if available), the strength and power of Subs and CVs would increase substantially, increasing sight, vision and control. Too often BBs are more concerned with sinking another BB than hitting a support ship, however, if that support ship was sunk, then our CVs could achieve air superiority quicker. I have had to waste many bombers just to take out an AA ship, when the BBs could have sunk him earlier. It's a lot easier to bomb a BB than a Moltke. Any help from the BB class is really appreciated. Remember this important point: GB2 is a battleship game, with everyone else in support. However, it also requires support ships. Without ASW, subs would eat BBs up. Without AA ships, DBs would eat BBs up. If you don't act as a team, then you will lose. Guaranteed. The best teams work together. Losing teams work by themselves. Open for comments and suggestions.

Ultra_Dog

This is a rough attempt to illustrate the role of CVs in GB2. I run a UK Malta CV (CV5)
or UK Illustrius (PCV). My BO is L116. I am not a noob. Here is how I see the role of
CV. I am open to suggestions if my "opinion" is wrong. Being a Flagship has only a
couple of differences from non-flag CVs. Assuming the game splits with 20/8, these
are your primary and secondary responsibilities and objectives:

1) Protect BBs. This means keeping fighters up and available to intercept bombers
(DB/TBs). Keep an eye out for messages from team mates about "incoming
bombers" or other problems.
2) Destroy Scouts. This means shooting down enemy scouts that provide
sight/vision for enemy to see your team.
3) Destroy enemy Fighters. This is the hard part. High level fighters will eat your
fighters up, but you have to send your guys up anyway. Even T1s can take out T4s,
if you have enough of them. Don't "save" your fighters during the game, get them
up and in action during the entire game. If you burn through all your fighters, just
accept that as the cost of doing war.
4) Scouting duties. It is NOT the responsibility of CVs to provide scouting duty.
However, if you don't your team may lose. Wasting fighters on scouting duty is the
cost of the battle to win. Most scouts sent up get eaten up by enemy fighters or
blasted by AA. If enemy fighter coverage is strong, your BBs can't send their own
scouts up through the thicket of fighters and vision/sight is unavailable. That also
means sending fighters on missions to provide sight/vision with no return for fuel.
You have to do that. Of course, if you are low on fighters, they need to return for
your own protection, but most CVs pack enough fighters that you can afford to lose
most of them.
5) Bombing duties. Always keep a TB or DB available. Let the BBs handle the
destruction of the enemy forces. Use your TB and DBs selectively and as necessary
to ensure victory, don't waste bombers on easy targets that the BBs will get
anyway, use them for long-range targets (enemy CVs) that are out of range of BBs'
guns. Again, don't expect them to return to ship, they are expendable.
6) Flagship duties. Don't get sunk. That means maintaining Fighter protection from
enemy bombers, bomber protection from enemy subs/ships, and always bring an
escort with a sonarman and AA setups. You should pack Hedgehogs to protect you
against subs (your most dangerous enemy). Don't take too many risks and don't sit
in one spot, move north, south, and change position constantly.

What to do when starting the game:
1) Launch your fighters and assert dominance in air superiority. (see items 1-3
above). Only after air superiority is achieved should you consider bombing
strategies. If you can't get air superiority, then your bombers will never reach their
target anyway.
2) Stay away from the firing (BB) line. You need to be a good distance back from the
battleships, as they need to maneuver and don't want you in their way. Keep your
escort away from them too. If an enemy BB moves in quickly, you could fall inside
their gun range and be toast. YOU WILL BE THE PRIMARY TARGET, IF AVAILABLE, TO
THE ENEMY. Also, enemy SS will abandon hunting BBs and go straight for you.
3) Be near the firing (BB) line. This means work with the BBs, but not too close, help
them with your fighter coverage and defense. If you are too far back, then it takes
a while for your fighters to get over your own BBs, you can lose a friendly BB due to
your tardy arrival. Take advantage of your team's AA and ASW supports in providing
cover.
4) Help your team achieve victory. This means adapting to the changing dynamics of
the game. Work towards identifying and supporting destruction of the strongest
(BB6) ships the enemy has. Keep your enemy blind from your team's ships and keep
the enemy under surveillance constantly. TBs are one of the only a few weapons
that work against submerged submarines. Learn how to manually control them and
your team will appreciate their work. Also, use your bombers to eliminate support
ships (ASW/AA). If your team's subs are in danger from ASW, try and help them by
taking out the DD/CL.

NOTE TO BBs:
It would be really nice if BBs helped anyone other than themselves.

If BBs would hit the AA or ASW ships (if available), the strength and power of Subs
and CVs would increase substantially, increasing sight, vision and control. Too
often BBs are more concerned with sinking another BB than hitting a support ship,
however, if that support ship was sunk, then our CVs could achieve air superiority
quicker. I have had to waste many bombers just to take out an AA ship, when the
BBs could have sunk him earlier. It's a lot easier to bomb a BB than a Moltke. Any
help from the BB class is really appreciated.

Remember this important point: GB2 is a battleship game, with everyone else in
support. However, it also requires support ships. Without ASW, subs would eat BBs
up. Without AA ships, DBs would eat BBs up. If you don't act as a team, then you
will lose. Guaranteed. The best teams work together. Losing teams work by
themselves.

Open for comments and suggestions.

Re : GBII - Role of CVs
05. 17. 2011 16:26

Gtdawg	"I like how you didnt mention scouting for you and instead said control enemy fighters. Too many BBs run out of scouts early because of poor management and are useless if CVs do not scout for them." Useless BBs expect a CV to only scout for them. Useless CVs expect BBs to be able to scout at all times without help from them. It's a balance that any reasonable player can figure out and most smart players master. As I'm sure you appreciate, I don't ask CVs to scout for me. I ask them provide me the ability to scout. In extreme circumstances, I'll ask for someone to put fighters over the enemy battle line, but that's usually after a couple minutes of being blind while having enemy fighters circling my deck. BBs that tell CVs to scout right away are stupid. The ones that complain about scouting after they drive in to the enemy and die are awesome.

Gtdawg

"I like how you didnt mention scouting for you and instead said control enemy
fighters. Too many BBs run out of scouts early because of poor management and are
useless if CVs do not scout for them."

Useless BBs expect a CV to only scout for them. Useless CVs expect BBs to be able to
scout at all times without help from them.

It's a balance that any reasonable player can figure out and most smart players
master.

As I'm sure you appreciate, I don't ask CVs to scout for me. I ask them provide me
the ability to scout.

In extreme circumstances, I'll ask for someone to put fighters over the enemy battle
line, but that's usually after a couple minutes of being blind while having enemy
fighters circling my deck.

BBs that tell CVs to scout right away are stupid. The ones that complain about
scouting after they drive in to the enemy and die are awesome.

Re : GBII - Role of CVs
05. 17. 2011 16:10

Waylander	>>I have found carrying a mix of 7 T4 FPs, 4 TBs and 1DB ample variability in my launch >>capabilities Hax much? :-P Dunno what I've got for CV crew. Last count I had enough to run UK all FW, all DBW and all UK TBs, got too much crew, don't even wanna know what I've got overall for everything...

Re : GBII - Role of CVs
05. 17. 2011 13:13

CAPTPRINCE	It would be more fun, if those CV player is the same as you think (to scout),..It also fun when they are a Bomber type player if they don't Fail,..

Re : GBII - Role of CVs
05. 17. 2011 11:59

Trophy	Exactly what SK_Bismarck said. Your only role is to have fun......

Re : GBII - Role of CVs
05. 16. 2011 22:24

japex	"GBII - Role of CVs" // Here is mine if ($competent_bb_drivers == null) { just_make_money(); } else { scout_for_bbs($competent_bb_drivers); }

Re : GBII - Role of CVs
05. 16. 2011 21:04

Adamai	hmm i love it when other people come on here and try to tell other people how to play lol for starters having a lovely huge wall of text about the order of things is all well and good, but dont you think you should have started with cv setup first.... for example how many fighter pilots bomber pilots and god forbid scout pilots the cv player might want to use.. and then dependent on how the cv is set up, their could be many methods of launching planes and the tactics availability that is envolved with said pilot set ups me i play uk pcv and i run 6 fp and 2 tb.. i genrally play the scouting fw but i also have a keen eye for bb failure and will some times switch to the odd bomber run to drop the odd BB3 or even take away an enemy cv with a wave of tb's uk tb's are only effective if you hit in the side with a full wave of 11 planes, thats usually enough to sink anything of bb3 and under.. bb4 bb5 and bb6 can take between 2-3 waves. personally i would refrain from trying to explain to people how to play their cv's because their are many ways as the people who prefer to bomber whore have already stated. flexibility is the key to a good cv player.. being a one trick pony is always bad for business. oh yea my cv can launch upto 11 planes at once, but at the start of the game i launch 6 planes across 3 pilots. this gives me pretty decent air supperiority in a really short time and while they are up scouting and takeing down early bomber waves im loading a 4/4/3 wave on my other 3 fp's then i just keep alternateing them as required. and dont forget to micro manage planes.. it allows you to cover mulitple areas of the map and grant lots of vissions in 3 diffrent locations rather than just one location. all cv players play diffrent. essentially we are all here to have fun and enjoy the game. so people play how they like and thats cool.

Adamai

hmm i love it when other people come on here and try to tell other people how to play lol

for starters having a lovely huge wall of text about the order of things is all well and
good, but dont you think you should have started with cv setup first....

for example how many fighter pilots bomber pilots and god forbid scout pilots the cv
player might want to use..

and then dependent on how the cv is set up, their could be many methods of launching
planes and the tactics availability that is envolved with said pilot set ups

me i play uk pcv and i run 6 fp and 2 tb.. i genrally play the scouting fw but i also have
a keen eye for bb failure and will some times switch to the odd bomber run to drop the odd
BB3 or even take away an enemy cv with a wave of tb's uk tb's are only effective if you
hit in the side with a full wave of 11 planes, thats usually enough to sink anything of
bb3 and under.. bb4 bb5 and bb6 can take between 2-3 waves.

personally i would refrain from trying to explain to people how to play their cv's because
their are many ways as the people who prefer to bomber whore have already stated.

flexibility is the key to a good cv player.. being a one trick pony is always bad for
business.

oh yea my cv can launch upto 11 planes at once, but at the start of the game i launch 6
planes across 3 pilots. this gives me pretty decent air supperiority in a really short
time and while they are up scouting and takeing down early bomber waves im loading a 4/4/3
wave on my other 3 fp's then i just keep alternateing them as required.

and dont forget to micro manage planes.. it allows you to cover mulitple areas of the map
and grant lots of vissions in 3 diffrent locations rather than just one location.

all cv players play diffrent. essentially we are all here to have fun and enjoy the game.
so people play how they like and thats cool.

Re : GBII - Role of CVs
05. 16. 2011 18:43

Plazmadj	"Fighter cover being defined as keeping me from getting bombed to hell, removing enemy fighters to allow scouting, removing enemy fighters that may be scouting me, playing smart and adapting play style against possibly superior opponents." I 100% agree with GT on this. It's not the CVs job to scout enemy ships, it's the CVs job to remove enemy fighters so that the other ships on the team can scout. Those players need to know how to scout effectively, and as long as the CVs are killing the enemy fighters then those players have the chance to learn how to scout effectively. I am more than glad to scout for myself as long as my teams CVs are keeping the enemy blind and keeping my scout from being raped by enemy Fighters. (Although, if my teams CVs have destroyed the enemy Fighters and Scouts, and they decide to use their Fighters to help scout, I will NOT complain one bit about that :-D)

Plazmadj

"Fighter cover being defined as keeping me from getting bombed to hell, removing
enemy fighters to allow scouting, removing enemy fighters that may be scouting me,
playing smart and adapting play style against possibly superior opponents."

I 100% agree with GT on this. It's not the CVs job to scout enemy ships, it's the CVs job
to remove enemy fighters so that the other ships on the team can scout. Those players need
to know how to scout effectively, and as long as the CVs are killing the enemy fighters
then those players have the chance to learn how to scout effectively. I am more than glad
to scout for myself as long as my teams CVs are keeping the enemy blind and keeping my
scout from being raped by enemy Fighters. (Although, if my teams CVs have destroyed the
enemy Fighters and Scouts, and they decide to use their Fighters to help scout, I will NOT
complain one bit about that :-D)

Re : GBII - Role of CVs
05. 16. 2011 17:30

Ultra_Dog	I want to commend the vast majority of commenters. In addition, I did not mean to disparage BWs or the logic and effectiveness of early bombing. What I was attempting to do was offer some guidance, with simple instructions to some CV players. In most games, certainly not all; air superiority makes the game changing difference. I agree and am witness to massive game changing events from BW actions. I often put a heavy emphasis on bombing vs fighters, employing different tactics and launch variations. I have found carrying a mix of 7 T4 FPs, 4 TBs and 1DB ample variability in my launch capabilities. Quite often I run all bombers and launch only fighters when necessary, taking advantage of other CVs abilities. But not all games can work out in your favor that way. Same with all FW setups. All-fighter ships are in big trouble if a maruading cruiser show up. However, BWs have a problem if a fighter squadron decides to camp out....each has its strengths and weaknesses. I want to give my opinion on this part, GBII is primarily a battleship game and CVs are supporting actors. The protection of battleships is paramount to success and understanding the needs of the battleship fleet is the primary duty to winning the game. CVs inflict tremendous damage with their bombing, but most often it occurs when air superiority has been achieved.

Ultra_Dog

I want to commend the vast majority of commenters.

In addition, I did not mean to disparage BWs or the logic and effectiveness of early
bombing. What I was attempting to do was offer some guidance, with simple
instructions to some CV players. In most games, certainly not all; air superiority
makes the game changing difference. I agree and am witness to massive game
changing events from BW actions.

I often put a heavy emphasis on bombing vs fighters, employing different tactics and
launch variations. I have found carrying a mix of 7 T4 FPs, 4 TBs and 1DB ample
variability in my launch capabilities. Quite often I run all bombers and launch only
fighters when necessary, taking advantage of other CVs abilities. But not all games
can work out in your favor that way. Same with all FW setups. All-fighter ships are
in big trouble if a maruading cruiser show up. However, BWs have a problem if a
fighter squadron decides to camp out....each has its strengths and weaknesses.

I want to give my opinion on this part, GBII is primarily a battleship game and CVs
are supporting actors. The protection of battleships is paramount to success and
understanding the needs of the battleship fleet is the primary duty to winning the
game. CVs inflict tremendous damage with their bombing, but most often it occurs
when air superiority has been achieved.

Re : GBII - Role of CVs
05. 16. 2011 17:00

angus725	Do whatever you want, I now have T5 scouts, useless CVs are now just leaching baggage for all I care. Useful CVs, keep fighting the good fight. ----------- +1

Re : GBII - Role of CVs
05. 16. 2011 16:56

ljsevern	"4) Scouting duties. It is NOT the responsibility of CVs to provide scouting duty. " >>> I stopped reading after this. If you want to win with a good BB player, you scout. Otherwise, its pot luck on whose team sucks the most. Jimmyrox's post hits the nail on the head, sure you have tricks to mix things up, but you need to do your job right. And scouting is the most efficient way to win.

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General Discussion

GBII - Role of CVs 05. 16. 2011 11:01

Re : GBII - Role of CVs 05. 17. 2011 16:26

Re : GBII - Role of CVs 05. 17. 2011 16:10

Re : GBII - Role of CVs 05. 17. 2011 13:13

Re : GBII - Role of CVs 05. 17. 2011 11:59

Re : GBII - Role of CVs 05. 16. 2011 22:24

Re : GBII - Role of CVs 05. 16. 2011 21:04

Re : GBII - Role of CVs 05. 16. 2011 18:43

Re : GBII - Role of CVs 05. 16. 2011 17:30

Re : GBII - Role of CVs 05. 16. 2011 17:00

Re : GBII - Role of CVs 05. 16. 2011 16:56