good job

As long as I'm not the one protecting the BB. I can get real nasty in the ASW support
role. I have killed around 100 subs that stalk the battle line looking for a kill. Of
those kills, 75% were the SS3-4.

Lanthanide

Some more thoughts

Tactics against ASW ships:
1) Try to kill them when they are at your torpedos max range. I typically shoot 3 torps
at every FF or DD, because they are so manuverable. If you hit them early, they probably
will never see you.
2) If they get close to you, you are hurting. Tonight, I was near a Nebby, but had 3 ASW
ships nearby. The closest starting dropping DC on me. Now, I used to hate DC, but now I
like it more than HH. Why? HH explodes faster. If DC is dropped immediately go into
critical dive. You can get all the way down before it explodes. I did that this time and
then did something else. I stayed down. Eventually, the ASW ships figured I was dead and
moved on. I popped up and got 14 torps into the Nebby, finally sinking him!

Speed vs SD: Saw a Hei moving 38 knots on the surface -- was I jealous of him (I go 32).
And he was hard to kill, too, probably had a high SD. But if you don't have the high
level engys to support, for IJN, I recommend SD. Why? Two reasons:
1) The IJN boats tend to have some of the highest DP. Thus the high SD compliment this
making us a lot harder to kill compared to most SS.
2) Speed is nice in the games with only a few SS and FF/DD/CLs. In these cases you are
going to rush to take out the BBs quickly. But in the bigger games, where there are a lot
of ASW resources, being the first one to the other side usually means you will kill less
as you are the biggest target for everyone. Instead, I think it is more effective to stay
back, kill off the speedy subs, get some air, and then kill the BB5 or 6 who is pummeling
your team. Of course if your team is winning you won't get many points, but if your team
is losing, you will get a lot of points and can likely change the game. Once you have a
good crew, you will be surprised how often you can change the game.

I ask this, will this thread be stuck or do l have to wait for more input?

Lanthanide

Special or Hyper Torp thread applies with SS, too.

Always go Special for its increased ability. Basically, Hyper was designed for a
special type of torpedo which were proximity charged, but NF has never
implemented the torpedos in the game.

I was wondering since the IJN has different kinds of torp sailors, which is the one to
use for SS?

Correct HappyMeal -- appropriately changed in original post.


For information about how sonar and planesman impact the game, read this post:

http://www.navyfield.com/board/view.asp?Num=84358&Sort=D07

It has great information in general. Near the end of the original post is specifics for
sub players. Note, the sonar and planesman do not have caps, the torpedo man does and it
is reached quickly.

"Air supply does not increase with higher level SS's"

Have you tested it? last time i checked it does..

Couple of points brought up by other players:

1) Air supply does increase with higher level SS's. The Vickers has a 2 minute air
supply, the HEI has roughly 3 minutes 15 seconds.
All a planesman does is allow you to replenish faster. If you are short a full complement
with the planesman, you have a chance of starting the game with empty air tanks.

2) Engy's -- D3m3nt3d made a great comment about starting a good engy right away. The
engy is the most important support personnel for the game as the IJN subs are slow. The
players with multiple high level engy's typically put 2 or 3 on the sub. I don't because
I don't have them.

3) CoolestGuy mentioned 2 noob mistakes.
Reload --When picking Torp personnel, reload has nothing to do with the position. This is
strictly a gun attribute. The Torpedo attribute only impact on the player is it
decreases your reload speed. Good torps with a seaman should have high reload by SS3's.

BO- He says to run the BO personnel down to as low as possible, freeing up more space on
the SS. There is no detriment to sighting range as when you are submerged the sonar
operator determines this range.

4) Armor -- Whenever possible, I put on bulge as the increase weight never seems to
impact speed. I have been experimenting with .2" of side armor instead. According to the
BB threads, this will halve torp damage. Seems to help, but haven't decided which I like
better.

Now that the new SS rules have been in practice for a while (increasing shell
damage for SS on the surface), I thought a comprehensive guide for SS would be
nice to write. I currently have a level 89 SS BO.

It is my favorite ship to drive. It fits my personality. BBs are generally more
challenging game play -- SS fighting is a lot of patience packed with moments of
excitement. I like it, because played well you can impact most games and in a
moment change a losing game to a winner for your team.

It is much more difficult to bring up a IJN SS crew in the current rules. The grind out
of SS1 is unbearably bad. You are generally too slow to chase any ships down and
you are too vulnerable on the surface. There are only two ways to gain good exp at
this level. If you are on the weak side of your team, you wait for your line to
collapse and then attack any rushing ships. If you are on the strong side of the line,
you wait for attacking SS's. Try to take them out while they are trying to attack the
BBs. If you do damage on the enemy before dying, your team will appreciate your
contribution. Many players will charge the middle. For a SS1 this is a suicide tactic.
Otherwise, wait till your BO is at least high enough for SS2 and then do a ship tree
reset.

Be aware of scouts. Often I will go under water when enemy pilots are above
so the other team doesn't know I am in the area.

Early on, check where clouds are in the game. Clouds are nice for hiding while taking on
air. Also, if you fire torps through clouds, the enemy will most likely not see them.

For crew, don't become a SS driver until you have two support which can convert to
sonar and planesman. I started without a planesman and it takes forever for your
O2 tanks to fill. I also play with a Seaman -- he is GREAT. He makes up for the lack
of crew slots.

SS2, SS3, SS4 are fairly similar and the tactics used are similar. The SS2 (Junsen) is
awesome -- I love all of the torpedo tubes. I stayed in it, even after my BO could
command the SS3, until my crew sizes didn't fit in the ship. SS3 (Kadei) is the best
ASW ship, though the 4 tubes up front are limiting. The SS4 (Hei) with 8 tubes up
front is awesome, but don't get caught in close with an enemy sub -- it can be very
difficult to win. It is also very hardy, even on the surface a BB5 can't sink you with
one hit.

3 Keys to beating other subs. First, use the initial scouts to determine where the
enemy subs are going and how fast they are going. You want to predict where
they are before they reach your sonar, because your torpedos are the fartherest
firing. Secondly, you know exactly where you torpedos explode. You are trying to
replicate the proximity explosions of the KM and UK torpedos. Even if you don't hit
the enemy sub, you can still kill him with 2 or 3 torpedos exploding at max range in
his vicinity. Thirdly, don't get in a close range battle with enemy subs. They will
have proximity charges, more speed, and turning. Its what I call "Flying Tiger"
fighting. Just as the Flying Tigers in WW2 never got into dogfights with the
Japanese Zero's, I never get into a dogfight with an enemy sub. As such I have a
very high kill ratio, something like 10:1.

With SS2 and 3, fire an early salvo to explode where you think the enemy sub will
appear. Then turn around and be ready to run. If you don't hit him with the first
salvo, he will probably turn to attack you. At that time you run away from his
torpedos while launching your aft ones. His will explode before they reach you and
he should die from your shots.

In SS4, I only fire 4-6 of my tubes with the first salvo and then I stop moving. At this
point, I wait to see the enemy. As he charges, I shoot my remaining torpedos AFTER
he has fired his. I then crit dive if needed. Usually, I will kill him with my shots or
force a crit dive. Because I shot my torpedos after his, I can come out of crit dive
first and pepper his position with torpedos. Almost guaranteed to win, even against
KM SS4.

But your real role is as a BB killer. I have killed more BBs than any other ship type.
To be most effective, you need to get to the enemy line as soon as possible. Decide
which direction you want to attack and move as quickly as possible to that point
without using OH. (Save OH for when you are in the BB line or closing on a high
value target) Hide in any clouds that are along the way. You can either dive
before scouts appear, thereby hiding your presence from the enemy, but reducing
your time underwater in the enemy line or you stay on the surface until you think
the enemy can hit you. I don't like taking damage from shells early on. I find having
full DP when infighting gives you significant staying power.

When attacking BBs I like to work with a BB5/6 on the enemy BB line. I can scout
enemy BBs for them with my sonar and having them lob shells in on enemy prevents
them from just focusing on me. A good teammate will take out any CLs or DDs
making you invisible to the enemy. (TY to all of those good teammates!) Multiple
times, with a good teamate or two, we have been able to wipe out one side of the
enemy.

When attacking a BB I almost always use maximum velocity mode. You don't have
many opportunities to hit BBs. You want to kill them if you do have an opportunity.
Against any other ship I use Gradual Firing and use a spread of torpedos. IF the
ships are running away from you, take advantage of the torpedos exploding at max
range to cause them damage. Rarely does it pay to run after ships unless you have
a support BB behind you. Usually you will run out of air before killing them.

If there is a particularly sweet target (BB/CV 5 or 6, or FLAG) in the area, I often hold
my fire hoping to get a full salvo off before anyone knows I am in the area.
Otherwise, they will run away. Of course, if there is a DD or CL, you have to get rid
of them or their sonar will pick you up.

If on the surface, always turn you sub toward or away from any attacking ships. Its
a lot harder for them to hit the sub's narrow profile. If you have a DD with DC's
attacking you, sometimes it is best to surface. DC's have less damage on surfaced
ships. I like surfacing when on top of CVs with the HEI. It gives my AA a chance to
shoot down their planes. Once, I had severely damaged the CV and was out of torps. I
surfaced "inside of the CV" He decided to shoot me while there and sunk himself! Every
time he hit me, he also took damage. It can be a lot of fun.

You either need to go banzai at the beginning of the game to kill as many BBs early
or you should be ready to retreat into the protection of your lines to get additional
air. It is more difficult to be effective using strategy #2, but if the battle is even
handed, you can kill the enemy subs, retreat, get a full tank of air and then go out
and get that high level BB who is pounding your team. Once you get him, your team
will probably win. I actually enjoy playing this way as it takes more skill, but when
you are the only sub remaining, you can drive the other team nuts.

Finally, remember, this is a game! Have Fun!!!