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  • Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 09:41

battery
Some "veteran" player complained that level capping is preventing him from joining any game. His post should now be on page 1 or 2 of this forum, but it is currently 5 pages long. So I decided to post a new thread on this.

I would like to provide the other side of the story about level capping. Mainly, I want to express my view on level capping from the standpoint of a lower level player who is around level 37.

The whole issue of level capping boils down to one simple thing: conflict of interests. Suppose level capping never existed. Vet players like camelo will be frequently playing in CL/CA/low BB rooms. Why? Beause with their uber gunners they can rape everyone in those rooms. They can hog all the experience points and they can do so without much efforts. They can't really be sunk since they have super soft defense. And the game usually finish quickly because the "vet player" faces no serious oppsition from the other team. Being on the vet's team provides little benefits either, since the vet usually kills everything before they can rack up some serious attack. The result is that everyone, except for the vet player himself, got little from the battle. In short, the "vet" ruins the game for everyone.

Why don't the "vet players" play with other "vets"? Simple! Picking on a formidable opponent requires more effort, more time and more skill. If a vet wants quick exp points, preying on the lower level people is the way to go. He should play against gold-bars only if he wants a challenge. Sadly, "vets" spend most of their time leveling up their sailors. Thus they are seeking to rape the noob CL/CA/BB 90% of the time.

Let's switch to the noobs' side of the story. We have been raped by goldbar constantly. Also, we have been denied exp and $ for being a goldbar's teammates. Experience tells us that having a goldbar in our CL/CA/BB rooms is detrimental to everyone. With the goldbar, we earn almost nothing. Without the goldbar, everyone earns a lot more exp. No, we can never earn as much as a goldbar, but everyone earns decent amount of exp. In addition, we have a lot more fun! Instead of watching the vet sinking everything, we get to actually play!

It should be obvious that: It's either us or the vets. We cannot both gain experience. Either the vets or the "noobs" gets all the experience, but not both. It's either us or them.

The noobs possess the ultimate weapons against the vets. We can level cap the vets so that we can gain experience. Meanwhile, we are starving the vets. This seems like a win-win situation for the noobs, don't you think? Why should we not level cap the rooms?

So, the vets are threatening to leave? Tell me one thing. How does this hurt the noobs? We don't lose anything! You have provided the noobs with many tips and advice in the past, and I would like to thank you for doing that. But now that we know enough about NF to make intelligent choices on ships and sailors, we don't need the vets as much as we did before. To make things worse, we have come to realize that the only obstacle that stands between us and our next CA/BB1 is goldbar players. I don't want to say this straight. Yet, I must. We want you away from our rooms. We don't want to play with you.

Until the vets has discovered a new weapon against the noobs, they will be complaining a lot. Some of them will leave the game. Should the "noobs" be held responsible for that? I believe so. But again, given the choice of making a decent exp for himself, versus keeping the goldbars in the game, most will choose the former. It's just life.

Sorry to let the vets go. But we cannot co-exist. The game system doesn't allow us to strive together. Today, we have level capping. Today, we have the power to remove the vets. Therefore, we must take advantage of this opportunity today. No one can predict how TeamNF will change the game tomorrow. So pardon us for capping the games.
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  • Re : Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 13:32

royalnavymat
Battery, your argument is retarded, it holds no ground, and your points are entirely biased.

"The whole issue of level capping boils down to one simple thing: conflict of interests. Suppose level capping never existed. Vet players like camelo will be frequently playing in CL/CA/low BB rooms. Why? Beause with their uber gunners they can rape everyone in those rooms. They can hog all the experience points and they can do so without much efforts. They can't really be sunk since they have super soft defense. And the game usually finish quickly because the "vet player" faces no serious oppsition from the other team. Being on the vet's team provides little benefits either, since the vet usually kills everything before they can rack up some serious attack. The result is that everyone, except for the vet player himself, got little from the battle. In short, the "vet" ruins the game for everyone."

Uh no, they play in those rooms because there is NOWHERE else to play. If they could play in their BB they would, but they can't becaues there's no where to play in a BB because whiners like you don't like dying. Just because they play in CL/CA doesn't mean they enjoy it, because they are losing some 50% of what XP they could get. As Coplice said: Money at high level doesn't matter. XP DOES.
Secondly, being on the winning team DOES provide benefits, because if vets rape people so easily like you think they do, then you will lose less ships and therefore win, and also therefore make more credits.
In conclusion, no, noone gains anything from the battle. Veteran players ahve money they don't need and less XP than you probably do and you have hardly any XP and money you can actually use. Wait a minute, who's getting the better here?

"Why don't the "vet players" play with other "vets"? Simple! Picking on a formidable opponent requires more effort, more time and more skill. If a vet wants quick exp points, preying on the lower level people is the way to go. He should play against gold-bars only if he wants a challenge. Sadly, "vets" spend most of their time leveling up their sailors. Thus they are seeking to rape the noob CL/CA/BB 90% of the time."
Er..no. Playing a formidable opponent DOES require those things but it also requires other formidable opponents. Get eight 2 goldbars on at the same time and they'll gladly play with each other. Unfortunately, that 'cant happen.

"Let's switch to the noobs' side of the story. We have been raped by goldbar constantly. Also, we have been denied exp and $ for being a goldbar's teammates. Experience tells us that having a goldbar in our CL/CA/BB rooms is detrimental to everyone. With the goldbar, we earn almost nothing. Without the goldbar, everyone earns a lot more exp. No, we can never earn as much as a goldbar, but everyone earns decent amount of exp. In addition, we have a lot more fun! Instead of watching the vet sinking everything, we get to actually play!"
B-B-B-B-B-BULLSHIT. If you actually had any skills you would realise that Vets aren't ZOMG INVINCIBLE VETERAN-ONLY LV 90 CRWZ. They are beatable and I have beaten them before.

"It should be obvious that: It's either us or the vets. We cannot both gain experience. Either the vets or the "noobs" gets all the experience, but not both. It's either us or them."
And one day, if you are them, then YOU will know what it's like to spend 20 minutes *looking* for a game.

  • Re : Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 13:16

battery
Even if TeamNF gives in and decide to remove level caps,
the noobs will ________ (fill in the blanks) the goldbars since they are so used to the concept of level capping. What we need is a new experience system that encourage lower lvls to play with higher lvls. Right now, sinking a goldbar Guam gives out the same exp as sinking a lvl 55 Guam. Hence the level caps.

  • Re : Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 13:13

jzuk
Well... wait till retail... then if enough high level players decide to pay for the game TNF will produce a mission for them to whore and keep entertained... if not enough decide to carry on... then theres no problem...

  • Re : Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 13:02

enwhyoo
Well, since this game wouldn't be free, I think the weight of users willing to continue after NF goes p2p is heavier than that of those that will quit the game prior to retail. So all is dependent on TNF's decision.

  • Re : Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 12:58

battery
We can argue this forever. But I am confident that we will eventually reach the same conclusion. This game is broken. The experience system is broken. Sooner or later you will see discussion like "What is the optimal level to quit Navy Field?"

  • Re : Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 12:55

enwhyoo
Well, I guess the definition of fun is different now, stacking and whining are the new forms of "fun." This brings enough incentive for me to continue after retail, it really does.

  • Re : Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 12:52

jzuk
Your arguement about "munching on a BB for big xp" is... well... you know it doesn't hold water... yes BBs yield a lot of XP and theres no boat in this game that makes me happier to see than a brand new lask because its spread is all over, its unarmoured and its freaking huge... absolutely delicious... but... thats not the case with the boats you want n00bs to play with is it? You want them up against level 70 boats... you know... the ones that have armour that renders non-BB rounds pointless... you know... its good xp... but when your 6 salvos yield 500 damage before you get one shotted... its not hard to see why people don't want to "much juicy BB xp"...

  • Re : Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 12:45

battery
Do people care what's gonna happen 10 or 20 levels later? They care much more about what is going on NOW. Add to the fact that NF is going retail in less than 2 months, most people are concern about getting as much fun as possible NOW.

  • Re : Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 10:54

enwhyoo
Depends on the BB user. Against a gold <lvl70, or any Jap BB short of Nagato, shouldn't be too bad. Against Air, X, Nico, etc. it is hopeless.

So if you're saying people level together now? Right...there will always be better players and worse players. I started off roughly the same time Zx did, possibly 3 days or so earlier, but since I shunned the game for a while and I don't play that much per day, can you notice the difference?

And yes, Karma does come back around, but look at it this way, you laugh now, but you won't later. in 10-20 levels you will feel the same exclusion people four bars and up feel.

  • Re : Level Capping and veterans: An Analysis

    10. 22. 2005 10:50

battery
Be fair, jonah. The vets will be gone by the time we catch up to their levels.

The real problem is selfishness and the exp system. We can change the latter, and not the former.

Remvoing the level capping system from the game means many noobs will quit. Again, noobs and vets cannot coexist.
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