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  • EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 01. 2013 19:00


Rehor

Content in second.

Sticky undone by author - 11/12/13.

 

  • Re : EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 01. 2013 19:00


Rehor

http://navyfield.com/Community/Forum/View.aspx?category=Z01&num=18807

The players responsible for the work on this patch are EnjiBenji, Farazelleth, GrieferLord, LJSevern, Richardphat and myself; with Benser33 and NYerkovic also, representing TNF.  Once given the mandate to prepare these new EBB's for release, the test team was quickly taken by an idea that soon acquired the code name of Project Insanity.

I can't really say much of anything about the ECV's because it's all in the stats and it's very obvious what hulls they are based upon.  As it was with prior ECV's, they are a slight improvement over their base hull, generally becoming the most properly labeled ".5's" in the game.  The Belleau Wood, Warrior and Hiyo will all have 7 launch and 7 supports.  The rest of the numbers can be found in the patch notes, and Fara's your guy if you have questions on that.

Project Insanity was given such a name because it is the first time that the test team in its current form has created a new ship tier while advancing guns on lower tier hulls.  It was a difficult decision to put BB5 gun equivalents on BB4 hulls, but it was determined that the event ship hull can be altered in a way to fit the guns, and this is how we progressed.  For absolute clarity, the new level 101 guns are clones of the level 100 BB5 guns.  The only numbers changes done to them were for the sake of space and weight.  They are available for use only on event ships, and they will not fit with ammo on any earlier tier.

Aside from the ships themselves, the re-tiering of the EBB's is the most important thing to come out of this testing session and patch.  In all future documents and data originating from the test team, Event BB's will be tiered based on what guns they are able to carry and not the hull they are derived from.  This can be seen in the following document:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahq83z2FEBm5dFVhN1dvTWZyN1lZMGltVXcxMDRGLXc#gid=0

The Arkhangelsk is a new SN ship that fits in to the EBB2 tier.  Based on the RN Revenge, it comes at a lower level than the Soviet BB2's and the other Soviet EBB2.  Its stats place it in line accordingly.

Four new ships will be added to the EBB4 tier, all for their own special reasons.  The Vanguard 1946 is everything that the other ships in its tier have been for the last nine months; BB4 guns with an extra bind.  The challenge with RN in this case was to give it some type of bonus, as we took the extra support slot off the table a long time ago (nine support slots before BB5 level was roundly rejected).  What was decided will hopefully make this ship appealing: durability (the best submergence in its tier), and a slightly modified BB4 gun: Vanguard duals with more punch.

Additionally, RM gets a duplicate EBB4 with another hull based on the BB4 Conte Di Cavour.  What could have easily been a boring clone becomes a more potent Cesare 1940; the Da Vinci can carry BB4 triples on all mounts.  Sufficient tradeoffs are put in place for this extra damage, but it keeps its eighth support slot.

IJN has an EBB4 of its own in the form of the Musashi.  Just like the rest, it is a BB4 hull with an extra bind of BB4 guns.  It is like all other EBB4's: built to be a grinder with eight support slots.

Finally, the US Washington is a BB3 hull with BB4 guns, making it an EBB4.  It is what the Missouri has been for the last nine months.  The Missouri is thusly moved into the new EBB5 tier.  Here is where the insanity begins.

If you have been the owner of an EBB5 Missouri, you will still be the owner of an EBB5 Missouri, but this ship is no longer the same.  It will now carry the event equivalent of Montana guns.  Another key change is the reduction of support slots from eight to seven.  This was vital in the eyes of the test team, as these were originally pitched as "prototype" BB's with weaker hulls in exchange for stronger guns.  The Missouri fulfills this in the best possible way, with 3 BB5 turrets on a BB4 becoming a junior version of the high-powered BB5 Montana.

The RN Temeraire, based on the Lion, is another new EBB5.  It will be able to carry an event clone of the Lion II guns (level 100 only) and will, like the Missouri and all the others, be a softer hull with standard BB4 support slots.

The Shinano (yes, we are going to be working on getting this renamed to reduce confusion) is the new IJN EBB5.  This is a bit of a special case.  Though it has the same traits as the rest of its tier, this will be the only one capable of carrying an equivalent of the 110 guns.  The reason for this has its roots deep in NF testing history, but I'll explain it as simply as possible.  Duals on a three turret ship don't really have viability at the highest of levels.  We made the decision to allow this ship to carry a second BB5 gun option at the lowest reasonable level (it is possible that a new tier of higher EBB's will come in the future).  Done at any higher level, six shells becomes more about novelty and less about functionality.  Do not forget that the Shinano will be able to carry a clone of the standard Super Yamato triples.  The stats of the duals (a bit higher level than the rest of the EBB5 clones) have been modified to have the same damage per second as the triples.  There is even more to it than this, but I won't go deeper into that now.

KM now has the J-39 (I like KM ship names).  Repeat what I have said above about this being the same as the rest: BB4 hull, BB4 supports, BB5 guns.  This, then, also applies to the MN Jean Bart, where the Richelieu hull gets a lot more pop with two fore Alsace quads.

You can see the difficulty that presented itself when we saw that we had multiple redundant hulls to work with.  This isn't a complaint, but instead an observation.  We do get a third Yamato hull.  We do get a third H-39 hull.  We do get a third Richelieu hull.  We don't get a third Iowa hull.  RN has two vastly different BB4's, so this wasn't really too hard.  We don't get anything near a BB4 hull for SN, and we get a third Cavour hull that we absolutely cannot put BB5 guns on.  So everything gets its little place; some get put in an old tier and some go to create a new one.  This new EBB5 tier, it was decided, was the best gap-filling option, even as most of us knew that EBB's are often used as levelers and these would have drawbacks.  Internal discussions often drew parallels with Rentals - strong guns with lower supports can have their place in Harbor Assaults or simply as a fun alternative to the EBB4 grinder.

As for myself, just like the release of the last crop of EBB's, I will strive to get all the correct information out there for those who wish to seek it.  The Google document linked above is straight stats.  If you have other questions, I will try and be available on the document's chat feature.  PM's on this site will be read and answered if there are questions contained.  TNF Teamspeak is not an

  • Re : EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 01. 2013 19:00


Rehor

Items for review:

- extra bind for Clemenceau

  • Re : EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 01. 2013 21:58


PictWarrior1

I'm a little bit confused.  The Washington class (which was an older model of a South Dakota class) is now an upgraded South Dakota?  They both had the same guns, but the Sodak has better armor, more AAW guns, and upgraded secondaries that were mounted higher to keep them dry and improve low angle AA.  Yet now the Sodak is the lesser ship?  Is the lesser AAW value going to be reflected in the Washington class, as well as lesser durability, or are we going to have to settle with a blatant disregard for historical accuracy?

 

I would be happy if the names were switched, making the Washington the BB3 and the South Dakota the EBB4.  Am I out of line here?

  • Re : EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 01. 2013 22:50


Benser33

Originally Posted by PictWarrior1

I'm a little bit confused.  The Washington class (which was an older model of a South Dakota class) is now an upgraded South Dakota?  They both had the same guns, but the Sodak has better armor, more AAW guns, and upgraded secondaries that were mounted higher to keep them dry and improve low angle AA.  Yet now the Sodak is the lesser ship?  Is the lesser AAW value going to be reflected in the Washington class, as well as lesser durability, or are we going to have to settle with a blatant disregard for historical accuracy?

 

I would be happy if the names were switched, making the Washington the BB3 and the South Dakota the EBB4.  Am I out of line here?

In the real world, BB-56 U.S.S. Washington was a North Carolina class, and the Washington EBB is also a North Carolina. However, what you say about it being superior to the South Dakota class in-game is true. The Washington has inherited the position left by the Missouri when the Missouri was increased to the new EBB tier, meaning it is lvl 96 and as far as linear ship progression goes it sits above the Iowa and below the Montana.

 

Due to the Sodak and Washington being different classes, switching their names isn't possible. And the North Carolina (which would be the obvious ship to switch names) is named after the ship class, as are almost all ships in the ship tree, whereas the EBB Washington is named after a particular ship of that class, like most EBBs are.

 

As for disregard to historical accuracy, we had to make a choice about what to do with this ship. It had to have a place as an EBB and with the Indiana already having the Sodak hull with the Nocar guns, there was really no way for the Washington to be improve. Also, USN lacked a ship for the new higher tier of EBBs, so to use the Missouri for the new tier and have the Washington take its original place was the best idea to make this work. Otherwise, USN would not only have yet another EBB around the BB3 tier but would also have no ship in this newest tier.

 

As a minor point, the Sodaks AAW will still be higher than the Washingtons.

  • Re : EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 01. 2013 22:58


PictWarrior1

So why not leave the Missouri where it was, give us the Kentucky (an Iowa that was never built) as the EBB5, and make the Washington the USN PBB in place of the Seva?  Please don't get me wrong, I love what you're doing.  I just see this as an opportunity to fix the USN PBB that has been ridiculous.  There is no shortage of ships to choose from, why does the USN have a Russian PBB?

 

On another note, I'd like to see the Hawaii (an Alaska class) fit in somewhere, maybe as another remodel of the Alaska, somewher between levels 60-64?  But that's an entirely different subject.

  • Re : EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 02. 2013 03:50


normpearii

Originally Posted by PictWarrior1

So why not leave the Missouri where it was, give us the Kentucky (an Iowa that was never built) as the EBB5, and make the Washington the USN PBB in place of the Seva?  Please don't get me wrong, I love what you're doing.  I just see this as an opportunity to fix the USN PBB that has been ridiculous.  There is no shortage of ships to choose from, why does the USN have a Russian PBB?

 

On another note, I'd like to see the Hawaii (an Alaska class) fit in somewhere, maybe as another remodel of the Alaska, somewher between levels 60-64?  But that's an entirely different subject.


SDE gives the hulls. Test Team just gives the number. (And a few other various things to make them work)


You cannot replace the PBBs as some players purchased them for their performance. Any different ship with any sort of different gun placement or such will perform entirely differently. It is against practice for a company to replace premium content. 

USN Has the seva for the same reason KM has the AD and RN has the Dunk.


It was a way to input other nations into the game before the plan to release more full nations was green lit. This is common in other games as well that are WWII based. 

  • Re : EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 02. 2013 04:11


johnw1981

good work rehor and all the others

  • Re : EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 02. 2013 06:43


HeroEnVec

"The stats of the duals (a bit higher level than the rest of the EBB5 clones) have been modified to have the same damage per second as the triples.  There is even more to it than this, but I won't go deeper into that now."

 

Thus proving that the NF community has been lied to about 110 guns since their introduction years ago.  At least someone has pulled his head out of his rear end and is working on things now...

  • Re : EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 02. 2013 07:05


Rehor

To clarify:

The IJN 110 guns were not changed at all.  The clone of them, for use on the EBB5 Shinano, has been modified in higher shell damage and improved reload.

  • Re : EBB / ECV Release - October 2013

    10. 02. 2013 08:04


Ragnarok_lif

First to thank the team for the work.

As a km player, I believe that a bb3 with h39 gun or a bb2 gun with bb3 gun would be more helpful. As it is really hard to grind with a km bb 2/3 for the reason tha lower tier BBs do not possess advantage in range but just too pathetic damage. I look forward to this kind of ebb in the future

 

BTW, j39 just sounds stupid lol

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