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  • APA line expansion

    11. 26. 2014 11:57

Recommend : 3

Dragon_Boats

going off that ebb / variety coming post on other thread ...

got a couple ideas for possible APA 2 (45) ... and APA 3 (61+) ... 
all retain CL class sonarman ability .. as well as 'transport' classing



first is the suggestion/request for APA 2's ...

==================================================================



APA 2 (lvl 45)

- seaplane tender ('cl hybrid')
basically a lvl 45 'oyodo' with extra suport slot (5)
(japan gets a few extra planes over oyodo due to lvl)
so every nation now has it's oyodo type hybrid tender
encourages more pilot leveling .. and cv encouragment


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaplane_tender
A seaplane tender (or seaplane carrier) is a ship that provides facilities for operating seaplanes (depot, transport, with recovery by crane). These ships were the first naval aircraft carriers and appeared just before the First World War.


Image ... mn Foudre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Foudre
The first seaplane tender appeared in 1911 with the French Navy La Foudre, following the invention of the seaplane in 1910 with the French Fabre Hydravion.
La Foudre was first commissioned in 1896 as a torpedo boat tender (Croiseur porte-torpilleurs), with the role of helping bring torpedo boats to the high seas, re-fuel them and launch them for attack.
She was then modified as repair ship in 1907, again as a minelayer in 1910, as then a seaplane tender in 1911. She was initially converted to carry torpedo-carrying floatplanes in hangars on the main deck. They were lowered on the sea with a crane. La Foudre was further modified in November 1913 with a 10 m (32 ft 10 in)-long flat deck to launch her seaplanes with a flying-off deck. The plane successfully lifted off from the ship on May 8, 1914. But at the beginning of the war, the platform was dismantled, and further experiments were postponed to a later date.
During World War I her roles were numerous, ranging from submarine tender to seaplane/aircraft transport, and headquarters ship in 1916. She was employed as an aviation school ship after the war.
She disputes the honour of being the first seaplane carrier with HMS Hermes which was temporarily converted as an experimental seaplane carrier for two months in April–May 1913, and is more often considered as the first seaplane carrier. However, HMS Ark Royal stakes a claim the first ship in history specifically designed and purpose-built as a seaplane carrier in 1914 (but that claim is disputed by the ijn Hosho).


Image ... hms Hermes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hermes_(1898)
Another early seaplane carrier was HMS Hermes, an old cruiser converted and commissioned with a flying-off deck in mid-1913.
HMS Hermes was a Highflyer-class protected cruiser built for the Royal Navy in the 1890s. She spent much of her early career as flagship for various foreign stations before returning home in 1913 to be assigned to the reserve Third Fleet. The ship was modified later that year as the first experimental seaplane carrier in the Royal Navy. Work began to modify her to accommodate seaplanes to evaluate the use of aircraft in support of the fleet. Her forward 6-inch gun was removed and a tracked launching platform was built over the forecastle. A canvas hangar was fitted at the aft end of the rails to shelter the aircraft from the weather and a derrick was rigged from the foremast to lift the seaplanes from the water. The guns on the quarterdeck were removed to allow for seaplanes to be stowed there in another hangar. Three storage lockers were fitted with a total capacity of 2,000 imperial gallons (9,100 l; 2,400 US gal) of petrol in tins.She was used to evaluate in that year's annual fleet manoeuvers how aircraft could cooperate with the fleet and if aircraft could be operated successfully at sea for an extended time. For the trials, she simulated a reconnaissance Zeppelin for the Red Fleet, commanded by Vice Admiral John Jellicoe. The Folder seaplane could carry only a small wireless transmitter because of weight limits and it would be launched to search for search for enemy ships and report back to Hermes which would retransmit its message with its more powerful transmitter. The aircraft made a total of about 30 flight before 6 October. The tests showed that aircraft required radio transmitters to usefully perform reconnaissance, that sustained use of aircraft at sea was possible and that handling aircraft aboard ship and on the sea imposed their own set of requirements that could not be met by converted land-based aircraft.The trials were a success and Hermes was paid off in December at their conclusion. She was recommissioned at the beginning of World War I in August 1914 for service as an aircraft ferry and depot ship for the Royal Naval Air Service.


Image ... ijn Wakamiya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_seaplane_carrier_Wakamiya
Wakamiya was a seaplane carrier of the Imperial Japanese Navy and the first Japanese aircraft carrier. She was converted from a transport ship into a seaplane tender and commissioned in August 1914.
Wakamiya was initially the Russian freighter Lethington, built by Duncan in Port Glasgow, United Kingdom, launched 21 September 1900. She was captured on a voyage from Cardiff to Vladivostok during the Russo-Japanese war near Okinoshima in 1905 by the Japanese torpedo boat TB No. 72. She was acquired by the Japanese government, renamed Takasaki-Maru until given the official name of Wakamiya-Maru on 1 September, and from 1907 was managed as a transport ship by NYK.
In 1913 she was transferred to the Imperial Japanese Navy and converted to a seaplane carrier, being completed on 17 August 1914. Seaplanes could be lowered onto the water with a crane, whence they would take off, and then be retrieved from the water once their mission was completed.
In September 1914, Wakamiya conducted the world's first naval-launched air raids during the first months of the First World War from Kiaochow Bay off Tsingtao, China. On 6 September 1914 a Farman aircraft launched by Wakamiya attacked the Austro-Hungarian cruiser Kaiserin Elisabeth and the German gunboat Jaguar in Qiaozhou Bay; although neither ship was hit. Her seaplanes also bombarded German-held land targets (communication centers and command centers) in the Tsingtao peninsula of Shandong province and ships in Qiaozhou Bay from September to 6 November 1914, during the Siege of Tsingtao.
British officers serving in the Battle of Tsingtao commented on the operations of the Wakamiya:
""Daily reconnaissances, weather permitting, were made by the Japanese seaplanes, working from the seaplane mother ship. They continued to bring valuable information throughout the siege. The mother ship was fitted with a couple of derricks for hoisting them in and out. During these reconnaissances they were constantly fired at by the German guns mostly with shrapnel, but were never

 

  • Re : APA line expansion

    11. 26. 2014 12:08


normpearii

You do realize APAs are troop carriers right.



Why would you suggest Seaplane tenders for the APA role... 

  • Re : APA line expansion

    11. 26. 2014 12:21


Dragon_Boats

you did read (especially the us one) how they are often command and support ships for apa landing operations ? Some of the early ones also had observation balloons as well, eye in sky for beach forces.
i figure its the logical step to preserve both its CL classification as well as retain its TRANSPORT ship status within APA line.

and  they are *tenders*.. they had the fuel tanks for repeat gassing up landing craft as well as planes

* keep their APA line attributes as ocean tile crossers and harbor marine landers .. big daddy APA's




the other advantage perk is that it gives all the other nations their 'oyodo' - with the catch its an apa line bo ship ... help get some blitz leveling rooms going ... spark an interest in apa line and you also bump up the interst in considering joinging fleets for stuff which lets them use it fully

and it at least provides some extra pilot flying skills to non-cv players .. helps with GB scout driving skills ?
and perhaps encourages more people to consider CV lines as well as the standard BB grind



idea is worth it on many aspects .. imho

gives the apa bo someplace (however small a step) to go from his deadend lvl 30 apa
still a cl still a transport .. adds some small FC capability to assist their apa convoy mates
encourages increased over all use of pilots in community .. cv and scouting skillz might improve

hushes the whines about oyo and mog cvs ruing blitz  splits .. (however minor an oyo type might be)
hushes the whines 'not fair ijn special' ... lets everyone have a shot of cl hybrid fun = fair now



i don't see a down side
and its an easy clone/tweak of oyodo (just as all apa are 'same') .. no big workover needed

.. so unless you wanna suggest a sheild heli-carrier as the next step for apa line bo's .. i'm going with the tenders as the next logical related-apa line step up from basic 30 >> 45 >> etc ...
* got a 61 idea for Q-ship type apa line as APA3 if the APA2's seem do-able and it catches on enough to get (easily) done ..

  • Re : APA line expansion

    11. 26. 2014 12:59


Dragon_Boats

Originally Posted by normpearii

You do realize APAs are troop carriers right.



Why would you suggest Seaplane tenders for the APA role... 



.. because they suggest themselves as suited for that role ..



USS Biscayne (AVP-11 ; later AGC-18), was a seaplane tender in commission first as a seaplane tender from 1941 to 1943 and then as an amphibious force flagship from 1943 to 1946.

Dédalo participated in the Second Moroccan War, where her seaplanes carrying out bombing raids in support were instrumental to the successful amphibious landing of Franco-Spanish forces at Al Hoceima.

After the War Giuseppe Miraglia was used to repatriate Italian prisoners-of-war (reverse troop transport), then spent the rest of her career as a barrack ship

During World War I La Foudre's roles were numerous, ranging from submarine tender to seaplane/aircraft transport, and headquarters ship in 1916.

Wakamiya was a seaplane carrier of the Imperial Japanese Navy and the first Japanese aircraft carrier. She was converted from a transport ship into a seaplane tender and commissioned in August 1914.



... thats enough points of mention for me to consider them in the category with APA transport ship type stuff

  • Re : APA line expansion

    11. 26. 2014 13:07


normpearii

Every nation still has more classes of troop transports that could be used for APAs. (some of which have been previously suggested)


Every nation still has liners avaible that were converted to military purposes during World War II. (Again, some of which had been previously suggested.






There is no need for Seaplane tenders. In an HA environment, that is just a waste of space. Fleets are not going to use something that just wasting a slot, there is only 35 spaces, capped at 25, 5, 10, 10, 10, 10, 5 per class. When your enemy has 25 BBs and you have 24 now because you've loaded a seaplane tender in the room that can't rush along @ 50+ knots like the current APAs can.



Also, just cause a Seaplane tender was part of an assault doesn't mean they always were. Assaults have always been an entire fleet engagement, Surface ships bombarding the coast, carriers for air supremcy and LST and APAs transporting troops and supplies to the coast line.


Seaplane Tenders are a support ship. In a situation where you don't have a large battleship, carrier or heavy cruiser to be your flagship, they make sense to be the place to command from simple cause they aren't directly approaching the coast. By no means were they the flagship of major landing operations where you do have those resources.

  • Re : APA line expansion

    11. 26. 2014 13:17


rocketeer1

Thanks for reminding me Dragon.

I am pretty sure I made a similar suggestion years ago on the old website.

Seaplane carriers would be a neat and useful addition to the game.

Other variants of APA I also suggested were PT Tenders and Midget Submarine Tenders. 

  • Re : APA line expansion

    11. 27. 2014 04:08


cambsguy

expansion of the APA line was requested in several forms while i was in TNF, it was rejected every time.

 

  • Re : APA line expansion

    11. 27. 2014 07:05


kawzst

I think what we need is E APA
140 olives thanks  

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