ID
Password
FlashGuide
FlashGuide
HA Infomation

Off-Topic

  Index

  • Gradual firing

    07. 21. 2011 13:30


Rick5000
Why did they always fire gradual (barrel by barrel) in world war 2? why not just like we do in NF, shoot all guns at once? is it because of the muzzle flash?
Or would the ship  capsize due to the recoil of the guns?

 

  • Re : Gradual firing

    07. 23. 2011 12:31


maj1lifter
wait didnt they do that so that they saw the shell splash and would help them find the range and before the last gun fired they could reaim it

  • Re : Gradual firing

    07. 23. 2011 13:56


Vlad381
All the stuff about hull damage is partly true but only in a few cases of overweight or overarmed ships (e.g. IJN Mogami)

The capsize thing is a complete myth.

The real reason, as I think has been briefly touched on, is aiming. They didn't always fire barrel by barrel. Usually they did a "ladder shot" that involved half or quarter salvos at slightly different ranges, with the time difference allowing the spotters to tell which shell splashes belonged to which shells. That way they could find their range quicker.

Most videos u see of WW2 BBs, especially those that have even number guns in twin turrets (e.g. Hood, Revenge, QE, Bismarck, Nagato etc.), alternately fire one gun from each turret, giving them effectively 2 salvos of 4 guns but twice as often as their theoretical "full" salvo of 8 guns.

BTW, gradual fire can be very useful as an aiming aid in NF especially with slow firing guns, if you haven't learned your angles yet. IRL, they had no way to "learn angles" so they couldn't blockshot from the first salvo =P

  • Re : Gradual firing

    07. 23. 2011 14:08


devildog8
most battleship couldnt shoot all guns because of the shear force and recoil behind them

  • Re : Gradual firing

    07. 23. 2011 16:40


wyatto022298
Originally Posted by caininus

Some ships had very powerful guns. Those guns should be so powerful that if a ship did a full broadside the kickback from them might have caused the ship to capsize.

`t e
Too bad the most powerful battleships didnt budge when they fired a full broadside, at the worst they would suffer structural damage from repeatedly firing full broadsides but it would still take a lot, rodney/nelson cracks would most likely have happened anyway.

  • Re : Gradual firing

    07. 24. 2011 02:33


STS91
Originally Posted by Vlad381

All the stuff about hull damage is partly true but only in a few cases of overweight or overarmed ships (e.g. IJN Mogami)

The capsize thing is a complete myth.

The real reason, as I think has been briefly touched on, is aiming. They didn't always fire barrel by barrel. Usually they did a "ladder shot" that involved half or quarter salvos at slightly different ranges, with the time difference allowing the spotters to tell which shell splashes belonged to which shells. That way they could find their range quicker.

Most videos u see of WW2 BBs, especially those that have even number guns in twin turrets (e.g. Hood, Revenge, QE, Bismarck, Nagato etc.), alternately fire one gun from each turret, giving them effectively 2 salvos of 4 guns but twice as often as their theoretical "full" salvo of 8 guns.

BTW, gradual fire can be very useful as an aiming aid in NF especially with slow firing guns, if you haven't learned your angles yet. IRL, they had no way to "learn angles" so they couldn't blockshot from the first salvo =P


Reasons why ships did not fire full broadsides:
1. its been touched on is acc, would suck to over shoot with a full broadside and be rapped as you try to reload. hint way in action you did not see ship firing full broadside (sure there is a few cases where the ship did because they where getting rapped). Its more about getting more rounds down range on target then trying to be bad ass with full broadsides.
2. There was a strong fear that repeated full broadside would have a negative effect on welds etc of the ship structure and gun platforms(and ww2 ships have been repaired due to full broadsides).
3. the concussion sucks .

If you think for one minute full broadsides could not possibly damage a ship your wrong. Its very possible, think of the ww2 commander that lost ships to a storm he sailed them into (they broke in half with less force then a full broadside from iowa would cause).

  • Re : Gradual firing

    07. 24. 2011 06:46


Sindher
Originally Posted by Karolis

"It was a rumour but it was disproved when Rodney (Nellys sister ship) fired several full salvos at Bismarck without any effect to her.


These beauty's were amazing :). "

Lies, check your source, or just don't spread BS if u don't know. Rodney ignored and did full broadside at bismarck, yes, but after that, cracks in her hull where found. Structural damage.



Do you have evidence? Or do you just like posting crap?

  • Re : Gradual firing

    07. 24. 2011 07:49


BeforeLifer
For the smaller ships like DDs and maby CLs if they had 6 inch guns they dont do broadsides simpley because since the shells are so light and the shells are loaded by hand, unlike with the BBs which mashines do half the work, they dont do full broad sides because each crew loads at a different speed meaning that some crews will load their guns before the other ones and if they wait for a broadside there wasting vauluable time which could be spent shooting waiting for the other guns to reload.
This might not apply for the BBs or CAs but for DDs and some smaller gun CLs it is the what I think.

  • Re : Gradual firing

    07. 24. 2011 14:00


DraughtHuntr
Originally Posted by Sindher

Originally Posted by Karolis

"It was a rumour but it was disproved when Rodney (Nellys sister ship) fired several full salvos at Bismarck without any effect to her.


These beauty's were amazing :). "

Lies, check your source, or just don't spread BS if u don't know. Rodney ignored and did full broadside at bismarck, yes, but after that, cracks in her hull where found. Structural damage.



Do you have evidence? Or do you just like posting crap?

He might not, but I do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood,_Tears_and_Folly:_An_Objective_Look_at_World_War_II
In that book, it states that the Rodney fired its full broadside and damaged the turrets(something to do with bearings in the rotating mechanism). Effectively put it out of action. Does not mention hull damage.

  • Re : Gradual firing

    07. 24. 2011 15:52


Sindher
Originally Posted by DraughtHuntr

Originally Posted by Sindher

Originally Posted by Karolis

"It was a rumour but it was disproved when Rodney (Nellys sister ship) fired several full salvos at Bismarck without any effect to her.


These beauty's were amazing :). "

Lies, check your source, or just don't spread BS if u don't know. Rodney ignored and did full broadside at bismarck, yes, but after that, cracks in her hull where found. Structural damage.



Do you have evidence? Or do you just like posting crap?

He might not, but I do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood,_Tears_and_Folly:_An_Objective_Look_at_World_War_II
In that book, it states that the Rodney fired its full broadside and damaged the turrets(something to do with bearings in the rotating mechanism). Effectively put it out of action. Does not mention hull damage.


Yes, Len Deighton suggests that Rodney was popping rivets and suffering other damage from the concussion of her own fire. HMS Rodney at one point for 9 minutes straight fired full nine gun broadsides non stop.

The "damage" caused by her firing all her guns were mostly cosmetic, IE toilets and sinks rattled of the walls etc which in no way impaired her ability to fight.

She went to Boston, USA for engine repairs and was sailing back with Force H by September.

  • Re : Gradual firing

    07. 24. 2011 16:24


Spagz
Mainly it was due to ballistics and targeting to improve accuracy. It was much easier and productive to zero in on a target via shell tracking using salvo's instead of full broadsides. Furthermore, most large caliber naval rifles had delay coils installed. Even when a full broadside was fired, each gun was actually fired milliseconds apart. Most triple gunned turrets for the USN was in sequence of gun 1, gun 3, gun 2. This increased accuracy, but the muzzle over-pressures would still interfere with the previous shots ballistics.

The second main reason for salvo's over broadsides was reloading times. If you miss completely with a broadside, your waiting 1 to 2 minutes for the reloading to complete. When firing salvos, if you miss...you zero in and have the next salvo immediately available. In this firing mode, you pretty much had a loaded set at all times.

There was little concern about structural damage. Unless it was a poorly designed ship, they generally were designed to absorb more energy at a single point than the over-pressures of the muzzles were capable of putting out over a larger area. The recoil systems in these gun turrets absorbed most of the energy.

1 2 3