Funny, I see a lot of similar responses, but frankly I have never TK'd. I would suggest you do the same thing as me. Look before you pull the trigger.

If you want to pretend it's just as devastating for your CV to lose a couple planes as it is for a BB to sink, go right ahead. You're not fooling anyone.



Read a little more carefully please.

I said: "tangle their planes up with enemy planes without being able to take them down"
You said: "I disagree again. If my planes get pulled into the enemy planes and are shooting them down"

You see where the problem is here? I'm talking specifically about when both teams' planes are unable to shoot each other down. This happens more frequently with scouts when the BB player isn't paying attention to it, a scenario I specifically mentioned.

CV players care what's going on with big squadrons of planes, and even if they aren't moving/dragging a squadron that's tangled up with enemy planes above my AA ship, I know better than to unload into a cloud of friendly planes. I don't just go berserk and lose control when I see both teams' planes in one spot. I watch and see what's going to happen for as long as I need to wait to see what the outcome will be. Usually if they're not both scouts, I don't have to wait long before only one side's planes are left. I have a CV myself, and a pretty small one at that. I know what hangar space restrictions are like.

Now if a BB has his scout spinning circles with an enemy scout, and neither one is going to shoot the other down or move, the friendly scout has now become acceptable collateral damage. Each ~10 seconds the enemy scout is up is another well-aimed salvo at our battleship. I still try to time my shots so I get the enemy plane and not the friendly one (and I'm getting pretty good at that, since I use slow, long-range AA, the SN SD-2s).

First off, think about what you are saying. Even a BB1 can take 16000 damage, in addition to their SD. I don't think I've ever seen a BB sink another BB with one accidental salvo. Even then, thats also unacceptable. What I said was look before you pull the trigger. I hit the "g" button, make sure I'm not hitting a teammate, then I fire. I've never had a blue on blue due to gross negligence. AA is even easier as you are far out on the screen. So yes, it is equally bad for a CV to lose planes as it is for a BB to take damage, especially on a smaller CV as the larger ones are beating them in a war of attrition. We do run out of planes you know.

Next point is when the planes are tangled and no one seems to be winning. The most efficeint way to take down enemy planes is to let them tangle, then drag once. The key is letting them get into the circle. This brings you onto the bad guys tail. Furthermore, sometimes aggressive fighters lock themselves onto a scout and it is a pain to get them to cut loose. When I'm managing mutiple squadrons of planes and one get locked into circles, it may be that there is momentarily another crisis. For example I've got one locked up with a scout en route to the other side. Meanwhile one set is being AA'd on the other side and I'm trying to move them and my escort discovers an SS right next to me. Situations like this are quite frequent. If the AA ship decideds to knock down the planes circling, what he's doing is putting the squad en route to the other side out of commission. Is that hiding our own line for a minute? Yes. But what that means is that you are now about to blind our own side too.

I am not saying that you personally are a bad AA gunner that blindly shoots down planes. However, there are some careless ones out there. Yesterday I watched one knock down three of his own fighters while aiming for one stray remaining fighter I had over the other side. I watched another one shoot down one of his own fighters aiming for a bomber squad that had already dropped and was returning. What is the payoff in that besides personal greed? I have seen some AA gunners pick off planes out of the circle without hitting their own. I've got respect for skill like that. Not that I expect everyone to be capable of that. All that I'm saying is that grossly irresponsible AA is wrong and should be punished.

Knowing life those fighters would run out of fuel in about 20 seconds anyway because the CV already plays with another set.



And what's the point of chasing those bombers with your fighters? Besides personal greed of course.



Irresponsible AA should be punished but irresponisble CV should not?
Shooting enemy planes in a CoD is relatively easy (you just have to shoot at your fighters and by the times your shells get there the enemy planes will take their place... at least with IJN 4.7")

However... why did those fighters get into a CoD over your BB line in the first place? if you really want to fight enemy fighter then do it on no mans land or the enemy lines because friendly lines are protected by trigger happy "friendly" AA ships.

Did you read what I wrote? You took almost every statement out of context.

- Would the fighters run out of fuel in 20 seconds? Uh.... no... they are on the friendly side therefore they have more fuel then the enemy ones.... So your argument that its ok to shoot them down as they are running out of fuel is quite ignorant. As I said before, if you are shooting down planes in route to the other side with a full tank, congratulations, you just helped blind your own team.

- Whats the point of chasing bombers well, there are two points. First you can follow the bombers and it will bring you straight to the enemy CV which is nice to know. Second, my fighters are already engaging that target. Lets change the senario and say that two ships see a sub. One of them drives over it and drops a DC. The second ship fires HH on top of the sub and the friend and sinks both. How stupid is that? Same thing, if the planes are already engaged, then AA has no right to be firing. As I said before that (and you obviously didn't slow down and read it) it makes more sense for AA to engage and the fighters to move to the other side. However, that is a tactical decision to make, not a rule.

- Finally, you make a comment on why fighters are there in the first place. Didn't you just read what I wrote? Sometimes things happen. You've got to fight in 2 or three different places at once. I said myself that I'd rather not fight there but occasionally it happens.


Really, before you go off on someone, take time and read what they wrote. Some of the things you are all fired up about I've already agreed with. You're just quoting pieces of it to start a fight.

Well I never suggested it's just as _easy_ to accidentally sink a friendly BB as it is to down a few friendly planes. The original comment was made to justify saying that shooting down a plane shouldn't have as high a penalty as sinking a friendly ship.

Other than that nitpick, I think we understand each other though.

I'm not against plane TK penalties in general, I'm against substantial penalties for one or two friendly shoot-downs. After all is said and done, it's still easier to hit a friendly plane once or twice a game than it is to hit a friendly BB, since planes get a lot closer together to fight than BBs do (actually it's also hard not to hit friendly BBs when you're ASW, since BBs tend to hump enemy subs even with friendly ASW around, but that's an exception).

Yes your right, we are a bit closer, execpt for the penalty part. I didnt think about the SS humping BBs and blue on blue for that.... I guess the only place we are different is the penalty portion. What if it were one for one? You kill one friendly you lose the reward for killing one enemy?

I think a better system would involve increasing penalties the more friendlies you shoot down, because it would punish accidents less and intentional TKs more. Say, zero penalty for the first two, 100% for the next two, and 300% for each after that, as an example...

However, the one-for-one method is reasonable, easier to understand, and probably easier to ask for from SDE.