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Make sailors more specialized
01. 13. 2012 16:46
Recommend : 2
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Eradicator1
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Sailors need to be more specialized to enable multiple playstyles and reward creativity.
As it is now, there are pretty much standard playstyls to every BB: 4 rep, 4 engi, scout, 2 gunners, 2 aa gunners, bo.
There is no place for restorer. Part of this problem is the fact that this setup caps nearly every ability, the exceptions being the upcapped overheat speed and the extremely hard to cap repair speed.
I suggest that the sailors bleed less into other sailors role. For example, the engineer can have 1000+ repair or restore ability at level 120 I believe. This ought to be rectified so that there is no standard setup. Furthermore, I am a firm believer in the fact that caps on stats dilute gameplay.
This happens because players will always find the minimum requires to max as many of these caps. For the sake of diversity, the caps ought to be significantly increased or removed. Another way to fix this is to increase the amount of skill required to cap it. Restorers are regarded as nearly useless, as the stat caps with a normal crew at around level 90ish. The effect is that a restorer is completely useless. Doubling the skill required to get 900 SD would definitely encourage the use of non-standard crews.
SDE totes creativity as one of NF's strong points, but while there are a myriad of classes, many of them are metagame'd out of gameplay and as a result, the game stagnates.
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Re : Make sailors more specialized
01. 18. 2012 04:06
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ljsevern
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Originally Posted by Eradicator1
Have you ever heard of trading advantages vs disadvantages
use·less/?yo?osl?s/ Adjective:
1. Not fulfilling or not expected to achieve the intended purpose or desired outcome. 2. Having no ability or skill in a specified activity or area: "he was useless at football".
While I can't say that it has no ability at all, it doesn't perform compared to other sailors that could be placed.
It's obvious that you're grasping for straws
btw if you're so adamant about burden of proof then prove your claim that seaman increases accuracy.
Yes I have heard of trading advantages and disadvantages. And you do so in this game. You defined a seaman as useless, yet I provided a number of uses for the sailor. You are the one grasping at straws. You are the one not providing proof. As I have said plenty of times in this thread, yes, things could be tweaked to iterate the sailor system. However, it is probably too late in the games life to make such a major change and ruin everyone's crews. The current system isn't broken in any huge way. There are advantages and disadvantages to each kind of setup. And sure, some sailors could use some sort of "buffs". And I completely disagree with any argument that claims that the current system isn't creative and has no variety, because there is. Making it harder to get 900SD will just hurt new players even more, and mean that end game, people will still run just Engineers and repairers, unless it was made IMPOSSIBLE to get 900SD with Engies and Repairers; Which would completely ruin people's existing crews. Removing caps would make it so that whoever had the most $$$ would win. Caps are there for a reason; Some are good and at the right level, some aren't and need adjusting. Stacking Penalties could be implemented, but should only be implemented on sailors that cause a setup to be overpowered when one class is used En-Masse; With the current game setup, I don't really see that. And sure, you can boost the effectiveness of Seaman; but caps would need to be there to prevent it giving more of a boost than it should, as it already gives a boost anyway. But I have already said all of this, and assume you will rage in some way in the reply while not listening.
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Re : Make sailors more specialized
01. 18. 2012 04:43
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maceg003
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Its all fine the way things are currently.. restorers may not be as effective as other sailors when used in conjunction with other sailor of high lvl, but at low level and used on subs and cv's they are useful.. they provide the extra SD that can help keep you alive, until your crew is of high enough level.
seaman are useful.. i believe its medics which have become less useful now.. if i remember correctly
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Re : Make sailors more specialized
01. 18. 2012 14:01
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Eradicator1
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Originally Posted by ljsevern
Originally Posted by Eradicator1
Have you ever heard of trading advantages vs disadvantages
use·less/?yo?osl?s/ Adjective:
1. Not fulfilling or not expected to achieve the intended purpose or desired outcome. 2. Having no ability or skill in a specified activity or area: "he was useless at football".
While I can't say that it has no ability at all, it doesn't perform compared to other sailors that could be placed.
It's obvious that you're grasping for straws
btw if you're so adamant about burden of proof then prove your claim that seaman increases accuracy.
Yes I have heard of trading advantages and disadvantages. And you do so in this game. You defined a seaman as useless, yet I provided a number of uses for the sailor. You are the one grasping at straws. You are the one not providing proof. As I have said plenty of times in this thread, yes, things could be tweaked to iterate the sailor system. However, it is probably too late in the games life to make such a major change and ruin everyone's crews. The current system isn't broken in any huge way. There are advantages and disadvantages to each kind of setup. And sure, some sailors could use some sort of "buffs". And I completely disagree with any argument that claims that the current system isn't creative and has no variety, because there is. Making it harder to get 900SD will just hurt new players even more, and mean that end game, people will still run just Engineers and repairers, unless it was made IMPOSSIBLE to get 900SD with Engies and Repairers; Which would completely ruin people's existing crews. Removing caps would make it so that whoever had the most $$$ would win. Caps are there for a reason; Some are good and at the right level, some aren't and need adjusting. Stacking Penalties could be implemented, but should only be implemented on sailors that cause a setup to be overpGowered when one class is used En-Masse; With the current game setup, I don't really see that. And sure, you can boost the effectiveness of Seaman; but caps would need to be there to prevent it giving more of a boost than it should, as it already gives a boost anyway. But I have already said all of this, and assume you will rage in some way in the reply while not listening.
You seem to be under the impression that I am a troll simply here to ruin your game. Well the fact is that I love NF and I would hate to see it shut down. To prevent that, changes need to be implemented in order to bring in new players. As to your point about seamen having use, okay they have uses, but the advantages are not worth replacing another member of the support team. This makes it useless for 99% of the playerbase. I play *** and the same principle applies here. There are a few units which the community has termed as useless simply because the costs outweight the benefits. These units are definitely do have uses and have unique abilities, but their high costs make it hard to justify their use when another type of unit would allow for a better defense or offense. Their best use is in gimmick builds where you catch the enemy by surprise. This is similar to NF. Seamen have uses but they are extremely limited and limit the options a player has if it is used. IMO to make them not so overpowered they ought to be split into various professions, such as Gunnery seaman (+ACC and +REL), Support seaman (+ENG, +RES, +REP), Potential (No name that sounds right but it would be used for subs or maybe APA's), and Pilot seamen (+AIR, +FTR, +BOM). This way they're not jacks of all trades that do everything. That's what makes them so delicate to balance now. I'd kind of see it as a more generic sailors with multiple roles without doing everything, while other supports would be more specialized. I already see the point made about caps. The changes might cause an upheaval in the short term but I'm confident that SDE could work out a solution, such as a free restorer if certain requirements are met. This would definitely help in the long term. ***edit by cambsguy to remove game name***
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Re : Make sailors more specialized
01. 18. 2012 14:57
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ljsevern
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Originally Posted by Eradicator1
You seem to be under the impression that I am a troll simply here to ruin your game.
Well the fact is that I love NF and I would hate to see it shut down. To prevent that, changes need to be implemented in order to bring in new players.
As to your point about seamen having use, okay they have uses, but the advantages are not worth replacing another member of the support team. This makes it useless for 99% of the playerbase.
I play *** and the same principle applies here. There are a few units which the community has termed as useless simply because the costs outweight the benefits. These units are definitely do have uses and have unique abilities, but their high costs make it hard to justify their use when another type of unit would allow for a better defense or offense. Their best use is in gimmick builds where you catch the enemy by surprise. This is similar to NF. Seamen have uses but they are extremely limited and limit the options a player has if it is used. IMO to make them not so overpowered they ought to be split into various professions, such as Gunnery seaman (+ACC and +REL), Support seaman (+ENG, +RES, +REP), Potential (No name that sounds right but it would be used for subs or maybe APA's), and Pilot seamen (+AIR, +FTR, +BOM). This way they're not jacks of all trades that do everything. That's what makes them so delicate to balance now. I'd kind of see it as a more generic sailors with multiple roles without doing everything, while other supports would be more specialized.
I already see the point made about caps.
The changes might cause an upheaval in the short term but I'm confident that SDE could work out a solution, such as a free restorer if certain requirements are met. This would definitely help in the long term.
***edit by cambsguy to remove game name***
Why don't you make a suggestion for Seaman changes? To be honest, a seaman should raise the cap slightly as well as boosting sailors. That would mean there would be a definate advantage to them. I still disagree regarding restore, as that would hurt lower level players even more. Maybe it could be an idea to make SD gain non linear; So it is harder to get to 900 SD from 800SD than it is to get from 700 to 800.
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Re : Make sailors more specialized
01. 18. 2012 15:43
![](https://file.navyfield.com/Olivelab/OlivelabAva/2009/05/26/Eradicator1_Ava.jpg)
Eradicator1
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Originally Posted by ljsevern
Originally Posted by Eradicator1
You seem to be under the impression that I am a troll simply here to ruin your game.
Well the fact is that I love NF and I would hate to see it shut down. To prevent that, changes need to be implemented in order to bring in new players.
As to your point about seamen having use, okay they have uses, but the advantages are not worth replacing another member of the support team. This makes it useless for 99% of the playerbase.
I play *** and the same principle applies here. There are a few units which the community has termed as useless simply because the costs outweight the benefits. These units are definitely do have uses and have unique abilities, but their high costs make it hard to justify their use when another type of unit would allow for a better defense or offense. Their best use is in gimmick builds where you catch the enemy by surprise. This is similar to NF. Seamen have uses but they are extremely limited and limit the options a player has if it is used. IMO to make them not so overpowered they ought to be split into various professions, such as Gunnery seaman (+ACC and +REL), Support seaman (+ENG, +RES, +REP), Potential (No name that sounds right but it would be used for subs or maybe APA's), and Pilot seamen (+AIR, +FTR, +BOM). This way they're not jacks of all trades that do everything. That's what makes them so delicate to balance now. I'd kind of see it as a more generic sailors with multiple roles without doing everything, while other supports would be more specialized.
I already see the point made about caps.
The changes might cause an upheaval in the short term but I'm confident that SDE could work out a solution, such as a free restorer if certain requirements are met. This would definitely help in the long term.
***edit by cambsguy to remove game name***
Why don't you make a suggestion for Seaman changes? To be honest, a seaman should raise the cap slightly as well as boosting sailors. That would mean there would be a definate advantage to them. I still disagree regarding restore, as that would hurt lower level players even more. Maybe it could be an idea to make SD gain non linear; So it is harder to get to 900 SD from 800SD than it is to get from 700 to 800.
I just want a use for all sailors that are added to the game, as oftentimes new players are duped into leveling sailors that they will never use. I do like that suggestion regarding restorers. It should be rather effortless to get to a 'high' amount of SD (750 or so) but then should require either dedicated crew members or an abnormally high restore stat on the rest to get to the cap. Kind of like how the repair stat works. It would be nice to know exactly what seaman does actually.
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Re : Make sailors more specialized
01. 29. 2012 13:04
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leaderwolf
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+1 for eradicator.
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Re : Make sailors more specialized
01. 29. 2012 15:23
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normpearii
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Seamen boost Accuracy Revision which is a major factor on gun spread. It also gives a 1-5% boost of ability to all sailors on the ship. Restores can be useful until the 80s. Then they are still useful for providing repair and SD on a CV. Restorers also for some reason can reduce the amount of Neg-SD you acquire when you are critically hit, allowing you to repair faster. Medics can save vets on non-CVs. They can reduce Expert Death as well. The only usless sailors are the AA Gun classes for USN. Explain how any of those 3 examples you've given are "Useless" Also I like this quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarrel
don't fix what's not broken
Repair cap is also easy to hit. UK it takes 4 +12 reps, USN can do it with 5 Reps. Even most nations can repair cap with 8 engineers with 150+ vets if you really want to try it. Also any nation with 3 vet capped Reps can repair cap. Also explain how changing the game is this way will save it. All I see is all the players that didn't level their Restores quiting the game, putting the game in a way worst situation. So in what way will this "Fix" the game by other than making half of whats left playing this game leave?
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