Even then, it means the games does make a difference between surfaced and submerged, not just sprite wise.

It applies different vulnerabilities depending on surface/dive/crit dive. The whole sonar check is also a sign submerged isnt just some sprite of surfaced, if I understand well what you are trying to say here.

My belief is we have some room to manipulate data independently from surfaced and submerged, and same goes for PHH "gun" damage and "torp" damage. I'll be sure to test that next time I log in.

Its not OP, cos i dont have high lvl crew on it...

And my key sailors or fine:
Engie - full crew, premium, 130vets, rest exp, eng+11
Planesman - almost full crew (-30 less then full), premium, 130 vets, rest exp, pot+14
Front torper - half crew, 110 vets, rest exp, true ability 600k or something
Others r stripped as much as possible, cos i want to get as much speed as possible.

And some time ago i spent some dollars (40 or something) , to get elite sailors for my SS4 (and BB) - 2x Engineers, 2x Repairers and Planesman, prem packs, some exp packs, AD, prem subscr, and now they wanna make big changes to subs, that sucks...

Lil nerfing is ok i think, but not that much as in test section at angus post.
Nerfing torp dmg, and making Subs easyer to sink (DP down to half or what ever), but dont nerf speed!!! And imo SS1 and 2 needs some buffs, more air and maybe more speed also

Ignore Angus' post, that is what I do. His reputation of doing game balance isn't great...

The main issue with subs is a lack of skilled gameplay, and lack of longevity. Currently, to counter these now, they are given:-

1) Lack of ammo and air due to lack of skilled gameplay

2) Insane damage/splash damage and reload as they don't last a huge amount under enemy lines.

I personally think they should be changed to a hit and run ship, where they have to choose between normal dive and crit dive. Crit dive takes up more air, but you go slower and don't take damage. You also can't fire torps remember. Allow the usage of sonarmen on BB's and CA's. Give proper national advantages to submarines and the ASW weapons.

Then a complete redoing of the ASW weapons.

Goes along to what I suggested bout silent running. As said, I,d like the mode to be apart of crit dive is possible, as a regular dive, but undetectable by sonar.

Quite simply, a sub being able to move in crit dive I'm afraid would be OP, they'd simply stay there for a while and enjoy full immunity, I'm afraid.

Ex. SS gets fired at by ASW, goes critical. Maneuver in crit for a while, get behind ASW, pops back up and fire torps, goes back under.

If adding such a thing is impossible tough, we could check what can be done with crit dive without overpowering subs.

I'd at least like to add no torp reload in crit dive.

For sonar on BB, I believe a BB alone shouldn't be able to detect subs. Otherwise the whole idea of a surprise attack can be wasted, no matter how much of a flawless approach the player did.

But it could be good idea to extend to CA.

I agree totally with you with ASW and national advantages.

But air goes down far quicker and there would obviously be a slight delay as to when they can fire torps. There needs to be a change in the sonar system with "Strengths" of each ship. I think having no torp reload in crit dive would make sense too.

BB's with sonar need to be intermittent (i.e. button press), have to have the sonar sailor aboad, and a time limit between checks.

(too much quote)

As I said, since I doubt SDE will implement what I'd have in mind, I'll take the next best thing imo.

We'll need to make sure the CD Speed *CD Airtime doesnt give more than half the map underwater. SO a sub that just use that and try to close in will pop up soon enough in the middle of the enemy line.

I remember someone making a suggestion to change air-time to battery charge. Difference between air time, is if unmoving, battery charge should diminish slower, and that could give room to a certain ambush playstyle I would think.

Of course I also see a lot of work with it seeing it would need to change the current system and I doubt SDE would allow that.

Also would need to balance every subs at every speed. But I believe some of the motivation behind the idea could be kept in mind and see if we can do something with them.

As far as BB with sonar goes, I see where you are going with that. I can't say I'm convinced, but I suppose if a sub is being way too obvious, a BB could time his sweep, once every X minutes, and intercept his final approach for a few seconds.

I'd like to suggest adding to this an additionnal restriction : BB must stop to do this. This could give a telltale sign to the sub to go into crit dive for a few sec, allowing the smart and aware sub to avoid it. Also would somewhat allow a BB to simulate a sonar on board, which could create an interesting dynamic between the two imo. Forcing the sub to sacrifice air to "avoid" a sweep.

Oh and :

Remove smoke usage from sub
(If BB get sonar option) Remove sonar usage from escorts

Highly agree, D scan would be awesome

Just as the topic was looking toward being a debate of ideas too. We go back to running in circle with you, while you just launch big affirmations with no arguments behind them.

Enjoyed that 3 days vacation?