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Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 22. 2011 12:33
Eufonioum
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Dear NF Community,
It is to my knowledge that the near-AAW immunity of the T5 scout no longer exists. I just placed my USN T5 scout at 30 altitude and 2 inches away from a Maryland, it goes shotdown. In another game, I put it at 45 altitude and 3 inches away from a HINDENBURG, down it goes once again.
SDE, care to explain about this ninja nerf?
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Re : Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 23. 2011 11:17
SylverXI
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You are saying that there is a "stat" on a ship that is effecting the "scout ability". Here is where you are wrong, because you provide no evidence to show that this might even be true. Everything else is right.
This gives you the idea that a scout have different "defense" and "offense" on different ships. That's not true, because scouts have identical defense and offense on most ships. Whether there are ships, where this is not the case, does not necessarily mean that there is a "stat" that is causing it, but maybe just "1 extra value" on that "specific" ship, that might cause scouts to have different defense and offense. In other words, bugs.
I am saying that the "scout ability" on a Sevastopol and Surcouf for a pilot, used to be disabled when a T5 scout is used(it's a bug, that was fixed recently). This is a conclusion based on the fact that when a T5 scout was used on those ships, the scout had nearly no defense against AAW and a ridiculously low attack. Again, this is a unintended bug, which is why we can't assume plane stats are effected by ships using this as an example either.
Nothing general. Remnants of the old ability for scouts should effect the scouts themselves and not just T5 scouts on a specific ship. In this case, the surcouf and the sevastopol. Maybe more ships are or where effected too, who knows.
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Re : Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 23. 2011 11:55
ljsevern
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Originally Posted by SylverXI
You are saying that there is a "stat" on a ship that is effecting the "scout ability". Here is where you are wrong, because you provide no evidence to show that this might even be true. Everything else is right.
You do realise that a ship nullifying scout ability would be determined by a value or a stat in the code...
Originally Posted by SylverXI
This gives you the idea that a scout have different "defense" and "offense" on different ships.
That's not true, because scouts have identical defense and offense on most ships. Whether there are ships, where this is not the case, does not necessarily mean that there is a "stat" that is causing it, but maybe just "1 extra value" on that "specific" ship, that might cause scouts to have different defense and offense. In other words, bugs.
I didn't say that.
Originally Posted by SylverXI
I am saying that the "scout ability" on a Sevastopol and Surcouf for a pilot, used to be disabled when a T5 scout is used(it's a bug, that was fixed recently). This is a conclusion based on the fact that when a T5 scout was used on those ships, the scout had nearly no defense against AAW and a ridiculously low attack. Again, this is a unintended bug, which is why we can't assume plane stats are effected by ships using this as an example either.
Nothing general. Remnants of the old ability for scouts should effect the scouts themselves and not just T5 scouts on a specific ship. In this case, the surcouf and the sevastopol. Maybe more ships are or where effected too, who knows.
Actually, how can you not assume plane stats are affected by ships? You can't at all. It could be a simple 1 or 0 value, with all the ships being set to one, with a few ship having a 0 by mistake. It could be a multiplier value for plane ability. Remember that since the last aircraft patch, instead of having 1 value for attack and one for defense (fighter and bomber), scouts now have one value for both; That is the air value. And if some ships have a multiplier value for this ability, then it makes sense that there are things that were missed. What baffles me is, you clearly have tested this, yet you haven't brought this to ONF, the test team or anyone else. This is something that should be investigated further, yet why didn't you make this public? I guess we both know the reason why. Again, I haven't said anything that is wrong here at all, and my comment regarding a stat was a theory. Feel free to prove it wrong. I still haven't seen anything otherwise.
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Re : Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 23. 2011 18:04
Cracko
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Originally Posted by ljsevern
What baffles me is, you clearly have tested this, yet you haven't brought this to ONF, the test team or anyone else. This is something that should be investigated further, yet why didn't you make this public? I guess we both know the reason why.
I guess it is because he would need to write 3 pages of posts and replies like yours or splid's for explain himself. We had tests and a long talk about this, I would explain all that sylver explain with other words but repeating same things is useless, just will quote some posts.
Originally Posted by ljsevern
Four things:-
One; the ship you launch a plane from affects ability.
Originally Posted by SylverXI
wrong again, on some ships, the "scout" ability itself which is responsible for the "AAW resistance" was disabled. Which is why I myself agree it is a ninja patch or a bug. I played sevas about 1 month ago and it did not effect the scouts in any way. Don't pretend to know things. Also, this "bug" was ninja fixed for the surcouf already. Tested it on the sevas, and was also fixed there today.
Originally Posted by ljsevern
Erm, how am I wrong? I have said a ship can affect the plane.
Word "can" was added.
Originally Posted by SylverXI
You are saying that there is a "stat" on a ship that is effecting the "scout ability". Here is where you are wrong, because you provide no evidence to show that this might even be true. Everything else is right.
and now we will see word "theory" added.
Originally Posted by ljsevern
Again, I haven't said anything that is wrong here at all, and my comment regarding a stat was a theory.
I would made some comments, but quotings speak by themselves. Have a nice day.
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Re : Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 23. 2011 18:39
silverxy
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Originally Posted by ljsevern
Actually, how can you not assume plane stats are affected by ships? You can't at all. It could be a simple 1 or 0 value, with all the ships being set to one, with a few ship having a 0 by mistake. It could be a multiplier value for plane ability. Remember that since the last aircraft patch, instead of having 1 value for attack and one for defense (fighter and bomber), scouts now have one value for both; That is the air value. And if some ships have a multiplier value for this ability, then it makes sense that there are things that were missed.
What baffles me is, you clearly have tested this, yet you haven't brought this to ONF, the test team or anyone else. This is something that should be investigated further, yet why didn't you make this public? I guess we both know the reason why.
Again, I haven't said anything that is wrong here at all, and my comment regarding a stat was a theory. Feel free to prove it wrong. I still haven't seen anything otherwise.
You are the one saying plane stats are affected by ships. Look at the multiple quotes from cracko's post for more evidence. Am saying something very specific and didn't go beyond of what I can prove with tests. Saying there is a multiplier, is a theory, but can not be proven with test. Only way to prove that is by looking at the coding itself. So the 2nd best thing I say is that the "ability" for the T5 scout was disabled on the Sevas and Surcouf. Going anything beyond that would only be speculations/theories and nothing more. Also why would I bring things to ONF(you)? I have my own fleet I can use to test things with. I tested this and informed TNF via support ticket. Lol, nub attempt to make some sort of indirect accusations jajaja. Funny how you say "clearly". Maybe if you read my first post, you would have "clearly" read the part where I said I sent a support ticket in which the vid I posted was included.
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Re : Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 24. 2011 02:00
ljsevern
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Absolutely hilarious. The hate brigade comes out yet again, and still no proof is posted that I am wrong.
I guess you don't realise what a stat is.
I'm still waiting for proof that my posts are wrong.
In fact, the only way to know is by looking at the code. As I said. As a value/stat is likely incorrect with a certain few bugged ships, likely from the last aircraft patch where ability was changed. But as I said, this is all conjecture. But it makes sense. Because the ships that have had this bug aren't related at all, apart from being new releases. I.e. not taking into account the last aircraft patch.
But feel free to flame more and not post this "evidence", while bringing your fleetmates as usual. Haters gonna hate.
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Re : Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 24. 2011 02:31
ljsevern
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Originally Posted by Cracko
Originally Posted by ljsevern
What baffles me is, you clearly have tested this, yet you haven't brought this to ONF, the test team or anyone else. This is something that should be investigated further, yet why didn't you make this public? I guess we both know the reason why.
I guess it is because he would need to write 3 pages of posts and replies like yours or splid's for explain himself. We had tests and a long talk about this, I would explain all that sylver explain with other words but repeating same things is useless, just will quote some posts.
Originally Posted by ljsevern
Four things:-
One; the ship you launch a plane from affects ability.
Originally Posted by SylverXI
wrong again, on some ships, the "scout" ability itself which is responsible for the "AAW resistance" was disabled. Which is why I myself agree it is a ninja patch or a bug. I played sevas about 1 month ago and it did not effect the scouts in any way. Don't pretend to know things. Also, this "bug" was ninja fixed for the surcouf already. Tested it on the sevas, and was also fixed there today.
Originally Posted by ljsevern
Erm, how am I wrong? I have said a ship can affect the plane.
Word "can" was added.
Originally Posted by SylverXI
You are saying that there is a "stat" on a ship that is effecting the "scout ability". Here is where you are wrong, because you provide no evidence to show that this might even be true. Everything else is right.
and now we will see word "theory" added.
Originally Posted by ljsevern
Again, I haven't said anything that is wrong here at all, and my comment regarding a stat was a theory.
I would made some comments, but quotings speak by themselves. Have a nice day.
I do love how you complain that I am incorrect in saying that the ship can affect plane ability, yet this thread is all about a pilot behaving differently on two different ships. I wonder what could determine that? A stat? A value? Its an isolated case, and on the whole a disabled balance tool, but it is still there.
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Re : Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 24. 2011 04:48
Obergrattler
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I sense a lock coming.
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Re : Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 24. 2011 05:34
Gtdawg
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How do you admonish someone for saying that it looks like a ship stat seems to affect scout ability while whining about how scouts perform differently on different ships? If there isn't a ship stat that does it, then how does it work? Magic?
That doesn't even begin to make sense.
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Re : Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 24. 2011 07:14
SylverXI
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Originally Posted by ljsevern
Absolutely hilarious. The hate brigade comes out yet again, and still no proof is posted that I am wrong.
I guess you don't realise what a stat is.
I'm still waiting for proof that my posts are wrong.
In fact, the only way to know is by looking at the code. As I said. As a value/stat is likely incorrect with a certain few bugged ships, likely from the last aircraft patch where ability was changed. But as I said, this is all conjecture. But it makes sense. Because the ships that have had this bug aren't related at all, apart from being new releases. I.e. not taking into account the last aircraft patch.
But feel free to flame more and not post this "evidence", while bringing your fleetmates as usual. Haters gonna hate.
Am still waiting for "proof" to the claim: "the ship you launch a plane from affects ability". Oh yeah, you provided no proof, no evidence to the claim. You changed it from a "fact" to a "possibility"(by adding "can") to a "theory" during this whole discussion. Am not gonna provide physical proof, to prove santa claus exist. You are the one that need to provide the proof. I provided proof to my claims in the vid, and maybe if you asked the devs, you would probably get the answer. Even the OP provided proof to my claims. Your claims on the other hand... Also, am not the one insulting, and cracko only posted qoutes, unless your saying "qoutes" are flames lol. Not to mention, last time I checked, your the one bringing fleetmates. Splid entered into the discussion first and only posted insults. Nothing productive, just insults towards me. lol In your arrogance, you claimed first there is nothing wrong with T5 scouts. The OP already proved there was something wrong indeed, which makes you wrong claiming there was nothing wrong with T5 scouts AAW resistance. There was something wrong, you claim there wasn't, that is why you are wrong. You later claimed there is a ship "stat" that effects the ability on scouts and provided no proof to back up your claim. Unless you want to be in some sort of quantum state, where you are both "right" and "wrong" at the same time, be my guest. For me, until you can prove your claims, you are wrong in claiming anything.
Originally Posted by Gtdawg
How do you admonish someone for saying that it looks like a ship stat seems to affect scout ability while whining about how scouts perform differently on different ships? If there isn't a ship stat that does it, then how does it work? Magic?
That doesn't even begin to make sense.
Because you can't "assume" something until you have proof. If it is a "stat" on the ship itself, it should also effect the other scouts, not just the T5 scout. It can be allot of things that could have specifically turn(not gradually effect the ability responsible for both attack and defense on a scout) the ability on scouts off. In this case aircraft ability would be my best guess. Also, nobody is whining, am just posting observations and conclusions to help answer the questions brought forward by the OP. It's up to SDE to change things the way they feel like it. The OP on the other hand is asking for an explanation, and he got it, and the problem was fixed. Lol, splid posts more insults xD I guess people tend to get aggressive when they are proven wrong.
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Re : Tier 5 Scout Ninja Nerf
12. 24. 2011 07:25
Monarch
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Yeah, this is going no where.
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