Why is anyone bothering with this? It's like arguing with a creationist. Useless. He has his opinions, and regardless of whether they are based in reality, he will hold them, and no amount of arguing will change his mind. He and people like him have utterly ruined this game, blocking any move for greater accessibility to new players or smoother more sensible progression, leading to the huge dropoff rate around lvl 60. SS were designed to kill ships with huge guns and lots of armor, big surprise they are able to do so. In ASW I can pretty much kill every sub on the other team singlehandedly, if ppl are calling out targets etc. In fleet battles you can build ASW right into the setup , thus nerfing any OPness right off the bat. Yes, Lj, my fist is completely OP if you decide not to defend against it, or prepare in any way for it smashing into you face. In GB a sub CAN get a good run in, but usually not. And the SS you have a hard time with are closer to lvl 105-120, and with the xp nerf , that means they actually had to battle MORE thn the same lvl BB so by your own logic they DESERVE to be able to kill BB ( as if divine right figured into this). Pathetic. Weak.
Let's break it down: Rock, Scissors, Paper. How can this game exist? To rock, paper is op. To paper, it's scissors. To scissors its rock. Get it? The game works because there is a circle of feeding. You loved the old days when it was just a straight line with BB at the end. Well, some people like to have the circle, and have more ships and playstyles to choose from. When I'm bored of my BB, or sick of waiting for CV to start rooms, I fire up my SS, sick of that? Fire up the CV. Quit screwing with this game because you and your 'elite' friends can't deal with a different sort of threat. Accept the fact that these exist and man up. So sick of hearing your incessant whining and crying and actually getting your way. You are biased beyond all belief, and your logic is failure embodied. If you can't kill ship ship a lvl 12 ship can kill, why advertise your lack of ability? Why nerf it? Get some skills, and man up.

Did you not read my post? I specifically cleared up the fist to face analogy, it was an analogy, used to draw attention to similarities in different situations. Like a weakling's fist being OP to an indifferent muscle guy. Get over it, noone is threatening anyone. No, I havent read EVERY post you ever made, and in general I respect your intelligence.

I DO still call you out on your outright dismissal of SS as an OP ship class, which have been demonstrated to be situational, and not inherent. Period. ASW negates any or all of this 'extra' power, and you know it.

I do feel you do your position and the game a disservice by the weak representation you give the SS class in your organized battles. Unlike many people who focus on one aspect of a game, I've done a little bit of everything, so I apologize profusely if my achievements to date haven't met your lofty standards.... but hey, who's the one crying "OP!!" instead of winning?

I apologize again, seriously this time, if you feel like I have a personal issue with you, I assure you this is NOT the case, and regret the veiled rancor present in many of my earlier remarks referring to you and yours. This , I feel, is mainly a result of my total frustration with the substance of the current SS debate, and the continued nerfing of a good ship class.

I could care less, I've stated before that the current ss4 could be the final ss6 , as far as abilities go, and I would be happy, so would many people. The guys who want subs buffed are on crack, straight up. PHH are retarded in many respects, especially the surface damage they do, a not-unexpected consequence of trying to give ships a viable anti SS weapon. I also feel that capital ships should be able to carry sonar, no reason for them not to, historically, or game-wise.

Keep saying a level 77 ship that takes 4.5 million exp should beat a level 120 ship that is 45million xp above it.

SS4 with at level crew is crap...you have to level up crew up to 110 lvl (engies, repairers) to have dangerous sub...

Try to level up SS crew from 77->110 lvl...Im sure that in same time you can level up another BB6...

With high level crew is SS4 somwhere about BB3-4s impact on a game...

I disagree.

Do you run SS4's in HA against T6 ships? Yes you do.

Point proven.