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Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
03. 19. 2008 06:40

Rengokuy	Adding 4 Sea Plane Tenders (1 for each nation) 12 Seaplanes / Flying Boats (3 for each nation) *For French/Italian/Russina see page 10 Role Tenders - CL that handles flying boats, Dedicated scouting ship with defensive armament Balance KM - Largest capacity, slowest speed, poor armament IJN - High speed, average armament USN - Largest Displacement, slow speed, average armament RN - Average all around Aircraft - High level scouts with large radius of sight, ability to see submerged subs, heavy armament, high attack rating, anti - submarine duties. Are only carried by the Tenders, no other ship can use them. Potential Armament Depth Charges, Torpedoes, Level Bombs, Mines, Flares Balance KM - Average all around IJN - Light armament, High Speed USN - Slow speed, High Hit points RN - Slow speed, Heaviest Armament Now why would you want these you ask? Basically you get a scout with a very large observation radius that is still capable of being taken out by AA and fighters, they will be able to see far enough to stay out of range of AA guns (but may still be in range of IJN, all depends on what SDE wants to do). Now the kicker to the planes is the Tender will only really be able to carry 3 - 6 of them (IRL 2 was max, but that is the number of planes it can carry, they serviced squardrons of them) and launch 1 at a time. That sounds useless but remember the Boats will be able to stay back with the assumed fighter wall that should be there guarding the BB's and still see the enemy. Basically it will be circling with your teams fighters so hopefully when enemy fighters come, they will engage your teams fighters. I will add 3 Flying Boats for each nation (consider them Tier 1 and Tier 2, Tier 3 but they are literally Tier 6, 7, 8 scouts) The final boats not being available until very high. They are arranged according to armament, not speed. They are in no way final so don't be suprised if i switch them out with another, or change the order they are available. Secondly the boats wont be available until lvl 70ish This gives you a reason to have a high level scout. It would also keep the ships out of Blitzkrieg, since the scout would (if used properly) be impossible to kill. Also the plane will be armed and capable of intercepting everything other than Fighters. The ships may also be obtainable at a lower lvl, say 30 or 40, and operate a large number of standard recon aircraft, but it will only launch 1 on deck at a time (in theory it could have as many in the air as it has support slots) Hopefully these could even help with scouting problems. It is assumed that if you use this ship, you intend to scout for your team as it is all you can really do. A CV (even a Oyodo) with only scouts is usually flamed to death, these will be dedicated scout carriers that don't take up a CV spot. They will either be purchased like the CL 0.5's or as a premium ship for 1 or 2 dollars max. (or whatever SDE decides, though I highly doubt people would pay much for them. All aircraft are potential ASW. Either being able to spot submerged submarines, and dropping depth charges. Able to see subs, and drop charges. So here you go. Remeber, these are the histroical specifications, they will all carry more aircraft in game, and may be a bit faster. Aircraft under "not shown" are ones that can replace the ones I selected, only ones with a photo am I suggesting be put in! KM Friesenland - 5425t 16knots (specifications are listed prior to Luftwaffe service, it is very possible that her tonnage, speed and armament were different during the war) Armament - none Aircraft - 2 Tier 1 -Blohm und Voss BV.139 195mph 4 - 7.92mm machine guns Tier 2 - Dornier Do 24 211mph 1 - 30mm cannon, 4 - 7.92mm machine guns Tier 3 - Blohm und Voss BV.222 Viking 242 mph 3 - 30mm cannon, 5 - 13mm machine gun Not shown Blohm und Voss BV.138 Blohm und Voss BV.238 Dornier Do 18 Dornier Do 26 Heinkel He 59 Heinkel He 115 IJN Akitsushima - 4650t 29knots 4 - 5in/40 DP (2x2) Aircraft - 1 (art by Takeshi Yuki) Tier 1 - Aichi H9A 196mph 2 - 7.7 machine guns Tier 2 - Kawanishi H6K "Mavis" 236mph 1 - 20mm cannon, 4 - 7.7mm machine guns Tier 3 -Kawanishi H8K "Emily" 286 mph 3 - 20mm cannon 1 - 7.7mm machine gun Not Shown Hiro H3H / Type 90 Model 1 Hiro H4H / Type 91 Yokosuka H5Y "Cherry" USN Currituck - 14000t 19knots 4 - 5in/38 Aircraft - 2 Tier 1 Douglas YB-11 169mph 3 - 7.62mm machine guns Tier 2 Consolidated PBY Catalina 171 mph 5 - 7.62mm machine guns Tier 3 Consolidated PB2Y Coronado 223 mph 8 - 12.7mm machine guns Not Shown Barkley-Grow T8P-1 Boeing XPBB-1 Sea Ranger Consolidated Model 16 Commodore / XPY-1 Douglas T2D Douglas C-21/26/29 Dolphin Grumman G-21 / JRF Goose Grumman G-44 / J4F Widgeon Martin 162 / PBM Mariner Martin JRM Mars Sikorsky XPBS / VS-44 Excalibur RN Albatross 4800t 21 knots 4 - 4.7in/40 QF MK VIII HA Aircraft 1 (purpose designed as such but never used in this role) Tier 1- Saunders-Roe A.27 London 155 mph 3 - 7.7mm machine guns Tier 2 - Short S.35 Shetland 263mph 5 - 12.7mm machine guns Tier 3 - Short S.25 Sunderland 213 mph 2 - 12.7 mm machine guns , 10 - 7.7mm machine guns Not Shown Blackburn R.B.1 Iris Blackburn R.B.2 Sydney / C.B.2 Nile Blackburn R.B.3A Perth Saunders-Roe S.36 Lerwick Saunders-Roe A.37 Short S.12 Singapore II Short S.17 Kent Short Knuckleduster Short S.19 Singapore III Supermarine Southampton Supermarine Scapa Supermarine Stranraer

Rengokuy

Adding
4 Sea Plane Tenders (1 for each nation)
12 Seaplanes / Flying Boats (3 for each nation)
*For French/Italian/Russina see page 10

Role
Tenders - CL that handles flying boats, Dedicated scouting ship with defensive armament

Balance
KM - Largest capacity, slowest speed, poor armament
IJN - High speed, average armament
USN - Largest Displacement, slow speed, average armament
RN - Average all around

Aircraft - High level scouts with large radius of sight, ability to see submerged subs,
heavy armament, high attack
rating, anti - submarine duties. Are only carried by the Tenders, no other ship can use them.
Potential Armament
Depth Charges, Torpedoes, Level Bombs, Mines, Flares

Balance
KM - Average all around
IJN - Light armament, High Speed
USN - Slow speed, High Hit points
RN - Slow speed, Heaviest Armament

Now why would you want these you ask? Basically you get a scout with a very large
observation radius that is still capable of being taken out by AA and
fighters, they will be able to see far enough to stay out of range of AA guns (but may
still be in range of IJN, all depends on what SDE wants to do). Now the kicker to the
planes is the Tender will only really be able to carry 3 - 6 of them (IRL 2 was max, but
that is the number of planes it can carry, they serviced squardrons of them) and launch 1
at a time. That sounds useless but remember the Boats will be able to stay back with the
assumed fighter wall that should be there guarding the BB's and still see the enemy.
Basically it will be circling with your teams fighters so hopefully when enemy fighters
come, they will engage your teams fighters. I will add 3 Flying Boats for each nation
(consider them Tier 1 and Tier 2, Tier 3 but they are literally Tier 6, 7, 8 scouts) The
final boats not being available until very high. They are arranged according to armament,
not speed. They are in no way final so don't be suprised if i switch them out with
another, or change the order they are available.
Secondly the boats wont be available until lvl 70ish This gives you a reason to have a
high level scout. It would also keep the ships out of Blitzkrieg, since the scout would
(if used properly) be impossible to kill. Also the plane will be armed and capable of
intercepting everything other than Fighters.
The ships may also be obtainable at a lower lvl, say 30 or 40, and operate a large number
of standard recon aircraft, but it will only launch 1 on deck at a time (in theory it
could have as many in the air as it has support slots)

Hopefully these could even help with scouting problems. It is assumed that if you use this
ship, you intend to scout for your team as it is all you can really do. A CV (even a
Oyodo) with only scouts is usually flamed to death, these will be dedicated scout carriers
that don't take up a CV spot.

They will either be purchased like the CL 0.5's or as a premium ship for 1 or 2 dollars
max. (or whatever SDE decides, though I highly doubt people would pay much for them.

All aircraft are potential ASW. Either being able to spot submerged submarines, and
dropping depth charges. Able to see subs, and drop charges.

So here you go. Remeber, these are the histroical specifications, they will all carry more
aircraft in game, and may be a bit faster. Aircraft under "not shown" are ones that can
replace the ones I selected, only ones with a photo am I suggesting be put in!

KM Friesenland - 5425t 16knots
(specifications are listed prior to Luftwaffe service, it is very possible that her
tonnage, speed and armament were different during the war)
Armament - none
Aircraft - 2

Tier 1 -Blohm und Voss BV.139 195mph
4 - 7.92mm machine guns

Tier 2 - Dornier Do 24 211mph
1 - 30mm cannon, 4 - 7.92mm machine guns

Tier 3 - Blohm und Voss BV.222 Viking 242 mph
3 - 30mm cannon, 5 - 13mm machine gun

Not shown
Blohm und Voss BV.138
Blohm und Voss BV.238
Dornier Do 18
Dornier Do 26
Heinkel He 59
Heinkel He 115

IJN Akitsushima - 4650t 29knots
4 - 5in/40 DP (2x2)
Aircraft - 1

(art by Takeshi Yuki)

Tier 1 - Aichi H9A 196mph
2 - 7.7 machine guns

Tier 2 - Kawanishi H6K "Mavis" 236mph
1 - 20mm cannon, 4 - 7.7mm machine guns

Tier 3 -Kawanishi H8K "Emily" 286 mph
3 - 20mm cannon 1 - 7.7mm machine gun

Not Shown
Hiro H3H / Type 90 Model 1
Hiro H4H / Type 91
Yokosuka H5Y "Cherry"

USN Currituck - 14000t 19knots
4 - 5in/38
Aircraft - 2

Tier 1 Douglas YB-11 169mph
3 - 7.62mm machine guns

Tier 2 Consolidated PBY Catalina 171 mph
5 - 7.62mm machine guns

Tier 3 Consolidated PB2Y Coronado 223 mph
8 - 12.7mm machine guns

Not Shown
Barkley-Grow T8P-1
Boeing XPBB-1 Sea Ranger
Consolidated Model 16 Commodore / XPY-1
Douglas T2D
Douglas C-21/26/29 Dolphin
Grumman G-21 / JRF Goose
Grumman G-44 / J4F Widgeon
Martin 162 / PBM Mariner
Martin JRM Mars
Sikorsky XPBS / VS-44 Excalibur

RN Albatross 4800t 21 knots
4 - 4.7in/40 QF MK VIII HA
Aircraft 1

(purpose designed as such but never used in this role)

Tier 1- Saunders-Roe A.27 London 155 mph
3 - 7.7mm machine guns

Tier 2 - Short S.35 Shetland 263mph
5 - 12.7mm machine guns

Tier 3 - Short S.25 Sunderland 213 mph
2 - 12.7 mm machine guns , 10 - 7.7mm machine guns

Not Shown
Blackburn R.B.1 Iris
Blackburn R.B.2 Sydney / C.B.2 Nile
Blackburn R.B.3A Perth
Saunders-Roe S.36 Lerwick
Saunders-Roe A.37
Short S.12 Singapore II
Short S.17 Kent
Short Knuckleduster
Short S.19 Singapore III
Supermarine Southampton
Supermarine Scapa
Supermarine Stranraer

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
04. 18. 2010 01:17

Fallan	A sub at periscope depth can be seen from the air. The black shadow in the water that looks like a whale? Yes scouts/ASW flying boats used this as a very effective means to destroy the wolf pack in the atlantic. If the game mechanics worked properly I believe our current scouts should be able to see shallow depth sub's.

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
04. 17. 2010 15:38

Executeur	It whoud better if they add a anti sub weapon on planes and sonar. Maybe can this ship use for a repair, ammo storage, HA paratrooper.

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
04. 17. 2010 14:37

Rengokuy	Relorian - "however the argument that by the outbreak of WW2 most nations had discarded Sea Plane Tender ships cannot." You're correct, it can't be ignored. But it can be disproven, rather eaisly actually. How? By actually using a book. I haven't the slightest idea where you got your information from, but you're saying a lot of big things. Basically, for the USN (operator of Catalinas) Tenders were used to help aquire and defend newly taken terrirory that had no airstrip. You'll notice that the USN tenders are heavily aremed and rather large. This is becasue they, and thier aircraft would have to defend this area taken as well. Reconnaissance was also an amazingly vital role, in areas where there were no land bases (much of the pacific) The seaplane tenders and their long range aricraft provided much useful recon for the forces they were attached too. The USN actually continued to not only use Seaplane Tenders prior to WWII, but to improve on them and the aircraft they operated.1 The RN is a little different. They didn't have such a peressing need for such ships, as they had pleantly of colonies all around their area of operations. Most the Seaplane tenders were used for Aircraft Transport. Albatross herself serving as a Recon carrier holding 8 Seagulls or 9 Warlus (te aircraft are already in game, but IRL tey were larger and used for ASW as well) This ex-australian ship was deemed unneeded and made into a Repair ship. The RN use its remaining seaplane tenders as trasnports.2 IJN. Ok. so Japan focused a lot on the use of Seaplanes, much in a similar regard to the USN, only a little differnt. Rather than just Recon, Japanese boats were also made to attack. Others, both Float and Sea, were just for recond and Defense. Either way, teh IJN was heavily involved floating aircraft 3 I'll do Germany Later, please, if you are going to make outlandish statements in the future, provide some backing for it. 1 -Gardiner, Robert - Dir, (Conways All the Worlds Fighting Ships 1922-1946 ,Conway Marintine Press, 1980) p156-157 2- ibid p78-82 3 ibid p 171-208 STS91 - Care to place a wager on that?

Rengokuy

Relorian - "however the
argument that by the outbreak of WW2 most nations had discarded Sea Plane Tender ships
cannot."

You're correct, it can't be ignored. But it can be disproven, rather eaisly actually.
How? By actually using a book. I haven't the slightest idea where you got your
information from, but you're saying a lot of big things.

Basically, for the USN (operator of Catalinas) Tenders were used to help aquire and
defend newly taken terrirory that had no airstrip. You'll notice that the USN tenders are
heavily aremed and rather large. This is becasue they, and thier aircraft would have to
defend this area taken as well.

Reconnaissance was also an amazingly vital role, in areas where there were no land bases
(much of the pacific) The seaplane tenders and their long range aricraft provided much
useful recon for the forces they were attached too. The USN actually continued to not
only use Seaplane Tenders prior to WWII, but to improve on them and the aircraft they
operated.1

The RN is a little different. They didn't have such a peressing need for such ships, as
they had pleantly of colonies all around their area of operations. Most the Seaplane
tenders were used for Aircraft Transport. Albatross herself serving as a Recon carrier
holding 8 Seagulls or 9 Warlus (te aircraft are already in game, but IRL tey were larger
and used for ASW as well) This ex-australian ship was deemed unneeded and made into a
Repair ship. The RN use its remaining seaplane tenders as trasnports.2

IJN. Ok. so Japan focused a lot on the use of Seaplanes, much in a similar regard to the
USN, only a little differnt. Rather than just Recon, Japanese boats were also made to
attack. Others, both Float and Sea, were just for recond and Defense. Either way, teh
IJN was heavily involved floating aircraft 3

I'll do Germany Later, please, if you are going to make outlandish statements in the
future, provide some backing for it.

1 -Gardiner, Robert - Dir, (Conways All the Worlds Fighting Ships 1922-1946 ,Conway
Marintine Press, 1980) p156-157
2- ibid p78-82
3 ibid p 171-208

STS91 - Care to place a wager on that?

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
04. 08. 2010 18:12

STS91	"ability to see submerged subs" Seems unfair, cant even do that in real life.

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
04. 08. 2010 17:22

Relorian	There are a few flaws with this idea. By the time WW2 came around, most sea planes were land based. Most sea plane tender ships had been retired to rearguard or axillary units. There were various reasons (I.e Seaplanes were too slow in air to contend with fighters, could only take off in calm seas) that this happened. Something like the Catalina was land based in most cases and would only land on the water to pick up survivors of sunken ships or if the plane had no other choice. Flying Boats like the Catalina were mostly used for Anti-Sub Warfare from land based installations. We have pontooned float planes in the game (Which suffer from neither the speed issue or the launching from water issue) so the arguments against based on that could be ignored, however the argument that by the outbreak of WW2 most nations had discarded Sea Plane Tender ships cannot.

Relorian

There are a few flaws with this idea.

By the time WW2 came around, most sea planes were land based. Most sea plane tender ships had
been retired to rearguard or axillary units. There were various reasons (I.e Seaplanes were too slow
in air to contend with fighters, could only take off in calm seas) that this happened.

Something like the Catalina was land based in most cases and would only land on the water to pick
up survivors of sunken ships or if the plane had no other choice. Flying Boats like the Catalina were
mostly used for Anti-Sub Warfare from land based installations.

We have pontooned float planes in the game (Which suffer from neither the speed issue or the
launching from water issue) so the arguments against based on that could be ignored, however the
argument that by the outbreak of WW2 most nations had discarded Sea Plane Tender ships cannot.

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
04. 08. 2010 09:57

Rengokuy	Thank you all so far. Once again I'd like to state they should only be able to detect subs though a small field underneath the plane. As for adding them as an extension to the APA line.. I like that though, but charging a dollar would be better for SDE. I dunno. It's really upt to them, I'd pay a dollar for them, just because it's better than leveling a APA BO. (which i have done...to lvl 52)

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
04. 03. 2010 04:00

Adm_Welsh	Love the Idea! How about the ability to drop sonar-buoys so allied players can see enemy subs? And depth charges... awesome idea... about time.

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
03. 29. 2010 17:51

Sp4ceG04t	ya making it a lvl 80 or so (to remove lazy people ) apa ship would be awsom if u have the willpower to get your apa to lvl 80 u get a awsom asw ship and a big help or make a lesond down verson at say 55-65 and then the full version at 80.

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
02. 24. 2010 03:35

aide4	i would recomend mabey putting it as the second ship in the apa line at lvl 60 or something

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders
02. 24. 2010 02:23

Kaj1234	LOVE THE IDEA! RECC'D!

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Suggestions

Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 03. 19. 2008 06:40

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 04. 18. 2010 01:17

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 04. 17. 2010 15:38

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 04. 17. 2010 14:37

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 04. 08. 2010 18:12

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 04. 08. 2010 17:22

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 04. 08. 2010 09:57

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 04. 03. 2010 04:00

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 03. 29. 2010 17:51

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 02. 24. 2010 03:35

Re : Flying Boats, Sea Planes and Tenders 02. 24. 2010 02:23