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  • Joke Weapon: United States 5/54mm guns need reasonable AA shells

    03. 10. 2014 11:38

Recommend : 0

Chaosticket

the United States navy 5"/54 cal Mark 16 dual purpose guns are bugged/nerfed to do only 45 damage using AA shells. Combined with its rate of fire its about 25% at effective as the 5/38 dual purpose gun.

Checking other nations' and even other USN 5inch guns, this damage is far too low with the next weakest gun doing 79damage.

The damage should be between 80 and 100 per shell.

===================================

Ive heard an argument that its not designed for anti-aircraft gun. Thats wrong as its a DUAL PURPOSE Gun, like other high-angle guns. Specifically it was made for the Montana battleship and used on the Midway carrier. Some of the dual-purpose guns are slow-reloading but theyre also stronger than faster-firing weapons.

 

  • Re : United States 5/54mm guns

    03. 10. 2014 12:28


nyerkovic

Navyfield is based on real life, but doesn't always intend to replicate it.

  • Re : United States 5/54mm guns

    03. 10. 2014 16:31


crackmonk

Originally Posted by nyerkovic

Navyfield is based on real life, but doesn't always intend to replicate it.




lol.... 

  • Re : United States 5/54mm guns

    03. 11. 2014 18:04


KevinJ

Originally Posted by nyerkovic

Navyfield is based on real life, but doesn't always intend to replicate it.




How does that mean that the 5 inch 54 shouldn't be a more capable AA gun?

I'm not saying it should be equal to or better than the IJN AA or the KM AA, but it should be better than it is. 

  • Re : United States 5/54mm guns need stronger AA shells

    03. 13. 2014 14:00


normpearii

Longer range AA in NavyField,with the exception of IJN's 6" trips, tend to have lower damage output than their lower range counterparts.



The idea is short ranged AA, having less time to hit planes, gets higher damage to quicky clear planes close to itself, while longer ranged AA is intended to hit the planes multiple times to kill them, as the longer range means it gets more chances to hit planes.





This is a video game, historically content is somewhat balanced.


If you threw in everything to realistic statistics, with the intent of everything being historically accurate, everyone would only play one nation, because it would simply outclass the others. 


The crown jewel of USN AA is the 3" 70 Cal Mark 16s and the 5" 38 Cal Mark 38s. 


USN AA is weaker for the higher AA guns, because USN shipstat AAW is plain and simply, the best overall of the natons.


And if we really wanted to be historical here, it should be noted 20 MM and 40 MM were the primary killers for USN. Which are represented by the current ship stat AAW. 

  • Re : United States 5/54mm guns need stronger AA shells

    03. 14. 2014 13:54


Chaosticket

 

#1 Lower damage output is due to low rate of fire, not low damage per shell. the difference between the 5/38mm and 5/54mm is that the 5/54mm is 50% longer loading and 55% lower damage than the 5/38. Compared to the 3/70 its 40% lower damage and 100% longer reload. The only weapons that do lower AA damage than the 5/54mm are really low-tier 3inch guns.

The 5/54mm is about 25% damage output as the 3/70 and 5/38mm dual purpose guns.

#2 short range AA/DP guns are there for lower tier ships who cant mount and dont have higher quality guns and crews.  Stronger weapons take up more space, weight, and require higher level crews to unlock and use.

#3 the USN 3/70 and 5/38 are decent weapons, but not great on range. the 6/47 is a strong weapon but the only ships that can mount it with more than 1 bind of ammunition are the Montana, Nebraska, Lexington, and the Oakland remodel. the 5/54mm is supposed to be inbetween but instead its a joke.

a quick-fix to improve the 5/54mm AA shell damage from 45 to 90-100 would do alot. It wouldnt be a super weapon as it would still be lower DPS than the 3/70 and 5/38mm, but it wouldnt be nearly useless as a DUAL-PURPOSE weapon.

  • Re : Joke Weapon: United States 5/54mm guns need reasonable AA shells

    03. 14. 2014 20:34


normpearii

AA guns were reworked during the BB34AA patch.





The test team at the time determined the lower AA damage output of the Mark 16s as the best method to balance the gun with its strenghs as a surface weapon.


I've gotten atleast 12k plane credits with the 3" 70 Ns and Ds, the 5" 38 Cal Mark 38 L, D, N and A, the 5" 54 Cal L, D and N; and the 6" 47 Cal Mark 16 DPs L, D, N and A.

Yes, thats right, there is no A variant 5" 54 Cal Mark 16 gun.

Sure the 5" 54s hit somewhat weak, but they make up for it with their great at level spread compared to other AA guns. Making them great for High Angling and longer range 5" broadsides in the Atlanta classes. Which is what their primary use was early in the games history. The 5" 54 Cals strength in NF has always been it's ability to due great damage via High Angleing due to the high maximum firing angle the guns have. Not its marginal Dual Purpose capabilities.

  • Re : Joke Weapon: United States 5/54mm guns need reasonable AA shells

    03. 16. 2014 20:25


KevinJ

AAW is useless. How many planes are AA immune? Even at deck level over the US Ships?

  • Re : Joke Weapon: United States 5/54mm guns need reasonable AA shells

    03. 18. 2014 05:03


Chaosticket

Originally Posted by normpearii

AA guns were reworked during the BB34AA patch.

The test team at the time determined the lower AA damage output of the Mark 16s as the best method to balance the gun with its strenghs as a surface weapon.

I've gotten atleast 12k plane credits with the 3" 70 Ns and Ds, the 5" 38 Cal Mark 38 L, D, N and A, the 5" 54 Cal L, D and N; and the 6" 47 Cal Mark 16 DPs L, D, N and A.

Yes, thats right, there is no A variant 5" 54 Cal Mark 16 gun.

Sure the 5" 54s hit somewhat weak, but they make up for it with their great at level spread compared to other AA guns. Making them great for High Angling and longer range 5" broadsides in the Atlanta classes. Which is what their primary use was early in the games history. The 5" 54 Cals strength in NF has always been it's ability to due great damage via High Angleing due to the high maximum firing angle the guns have. Not its marginal Dual Purpose capabilities.



I dont know updates that was compared to the usual code like 1.400

The USN lacks specialized AA guns like some of the other nations do, with the 6/47mm A gun being the exception. USN guns are DUAL PURPOSE which means reduced specialization for versatility. if the 5/54mm was a single-purpose anti-air gun it wouldnt have anything but AA shells, but have its rate improved to something around 1.20 with 100 damage while being much lighter and taking less space.

Now youve praised the 5/54mm surface ability but maginalized its pathetic anti-air ability and mentioned a situation where deck armor is light. Youve just said in a roundabout way that you use it in Blitzkrieg and like it there. That shows a strong bias as Its not just a anti-ship gun for the Atlanta class but also other USN ships.

the 5/54mm single and dual guns AA shell damage is too low, that is a fact. Your opinion is that being a solid anti-ship weapons means it doesnt need to be dual purpose.

  • Re : Joke Weapon: United States 5/54mm guns need reasonable AA shells

    03. 18. 2014 07:16


mako089

Dear Chaos,

All your suggestions show your inexperience.  Your stats show you never bothered to level your sailors.  I 100% understand where you are coming from - the view of this game through the eyes of a new - low level player.   This is a level based game.  If you bothered to level sailors beyond 60 you would start to see some benefits.

I've observed you in the past week.  You dabble in the mid 30s to 40s across all nations.  You barely put up a fight in your Tribal DD.  You sailed straight into a torp wall.

Your suggestions are based on numbers you see looking up the ship tree.  Once you have played the ships, guns, etc you are whining about then post in the suggestions.

While I can understand your position as a low level player, you don't have enough experience or knowledge to be making suggestions especially vs the likes of Norm.

For all the complaints you made about RM DDs, I sunk your dd using my RM dd(not Leone) while taking one hit.  Saying the performance was pathetic would be an understatement.  What does that say about your buff RM DD suggestion?  You haven'played enough.   You don't know enough.  I'm trying to be as nice as possible but it's way too early in your NF life to be making any suggestions.

Pick one nation, level it, and if it still seems bad after a few thousand games then post a suggestion.

 

  • Re : Joke Weapon: United States 5/54mm guns need reasonable AA shells

    03. 18. 2014 08:01


nyerkovic

Originally Posted by KevinJ

Originally Posted by nyerkovic

Navyfield is based on real life, but doesn't always intend to replicate it.




How does that mean that the 5 inch 54 shouldn't be a more capable AA gun?

I'm not saying it should be equal to or better than the IJN AA or the KM AA, but it should be better than it is. 



When the argument is that the guns were used on the Montana and Midway, when it also compares to other 5 inch guns (and we know caliber alone means nothing in this game), and when it doesn't give an ingame balance argument as to why the intended damage should be raised (the concept that it is bugged/nerfed is wrong), then the suggestion doesn't really seem to be a request for a more capable AA gun but rather a request for a more realistic gun.


The gun is dual purpose and it shoots HE and AA and both can be useful due to reload, spread and range. Specialized AA gun as norm said is the 3" and a Dual Purpose gun will hardly match it in terms of overall performance. 


We could argue if there is a need for the 5"/54 to increase the AA damage, but the arguments for it shouldn't be "It was made for the Montana and used on the Midway" or "other 5inch shells do more damage". It needs to have arguments on its own merit, based on its overall performance and in line with the nation traits.

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