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  • Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    08. 28. 2011 19:20

Recommend : 0

DeathAddict
Well.
Theres been a long tale about people hating on subs but do not know the risks and disadvantages of having a sub.
I do know for a fact though Subs are quite annoying at times.
Why are they Balanced?
1. When they surface in your side of the map Their gonna be HH'd or Killed by BBs on your team unless their too "buzy"
to see the sub near them
2. It doesnt get good till SS2+( well atleast for IJN) In an SS1-2 chances are you dont have the best Sub crew in the world
so you get a decent Air time just enough to get to the other side of the map if your smart enough to get that far. And your
Torp reload is pretty Slow for lvl 39+ torpers unless you got B/V/E.
3.As I said with #1 you can counter them with HH's. Is it that much of a  trouble to add HH's to your T slots if your  CV/BB?
4. They Got nerfed. With Duds and you know.

How To counter Subs.
Step 1. Add HH's or Depth Charges to your ship.
Step 2. Add Bulge.
Step 3. Scout for any subs in the beginning of a battle
Step 4. Predict where the sub might go.
Step 5. For BBs Keep your Senses up on the high and remember that their are subs.
Step 6. When they Fire torps or you see where the torps came from fire the HH's in GRADUAL mode. Why? Cause when you miss
your target firing all your HH's theirs a long reload. unless you got good gunners.

There are more ways to counter a Sub an I'll add it on later.

 

  • Re : Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    09. 03. 2011 18:41


aingeal
Originally Posted by Donitz_Ger

Imho the best solution would be to change the way torpedoes work. I'd suggest this:

1. replace current torpedoes with 2 new types. One weak type that explodes on contact and the other one that has to be set to to a target range.
2. torpedoes hitting on contact should be useless against anything using decent bulk and/or belt armor, i.e. high tier BBs. Also they should not explode at all if they dont hit anything. No more splash damage from those!
3. torpedos set for a range (think of it like setting an angle for BB guns) are meant to explode under the target ship. If they do they should cause damage alright. If they miss slightly they should give minor splash damage. If they miss entirely the sub commander is a noob.
4. change HH and DC, HH should only explode if they actually hit the submerged sub. DC should at least have a switch to select explosion depth, i.e. decide if you want them to explode at normal depth or critical depth. Pick the wrong depth and miss completely. Also using DC should give the ASW ship a short sonar blind moment to make it not so easy to tell how well he hit or how the sub tries to dodge.

Now with those 4 points changed both torpedo use and ASW usage would be much more challenging. Because of that torps and ASW should get decent personal attack like surface guns do. Many inapt players would wine a lot. But the game would be better.

Is that possible in this game anymore? I have no freaking idea...


I doubt it.

You'd have to mess with armor, torp detonation, add a function to "set" torpedoes more accurate than slow/fast, etc. I find it interesting as far as aiming goes tough. But I dont believe it can be implemented.



Crit depth is a depth where ASW weapon can't go. Seeing as NF isnt RL and doesnt have a choice of depth, I don,t think that function would be very interesting.

I agree HH needs to have less blast radius. I also think they should be tested with a minimum angle, aka only work as HAW weapons (high angling). That would also settle a few direct-fire issue with them. Then reducing the timer on them so a sub that didnt see lobbing his way and didnt already start a crit dive deserve dying.

DC timer I think should be 2 or 4 sec, or a mix of both (slow/fast). Sub take about 2 sec to dive in crit dive, and if a DD got above them and dropped DC, they should die. The DD using that already lose visual when he hits the OH for the rush unless he has a second ship keeping sonar contact with the sub nearby. 4 sec to prevent the sub to come right back up and launch a torp.

All ship lose sonar in OH, and you need a small 1-2 sec cooldown after OH quit to get it back in fact, except subs.

  • Re : Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    09. 04. 2011 15:37


jikemenkins
I just want to add this.

After playing my BB for a few weeks and not touching my SS, i took the sub out today and wow what a disappointment. I dont understand how anyone can say subs are over powered.

A sub fights at point blank range, soon as my air is out i die.
A DD can obliterate me at will with depth charges or HH
Almost anyone can mount HH and then all it takes is a well placed shot.
Torp damage is shared XP. In my BB i can litteraly get less than 100 attack, die, get "defeated" and still get more experience for my crew than if i rack up 65k attack in my sub and "win."

i really dont understand how people think subs are so unfair. Do yo know when a sub kills me when im in my BB? when i dont pay attention. Thats my own fault. Guess when i get shelled to death in my BB. When i dont pay attention to the enemy battle line. Its the same thing. Both my fault. All i have to do is pay attention and i stay alive. Not hard.

  • Re : Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    09. 23. 2011 05:19


Demonpaw7
A very easy fix is to award 200% exp boost multiplier for every sub sunk with bonus credits (like AA). Bye bye submarines.

  • Re : Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    09. 23. 2011 05:37


Invinciblor
Originally Posted by Demonpaw7

A very easy fix is to award 200% exp boost multiplier for every sub sunk with bonus credits (like AA). Bye bye submarines.


Lol, actually, I've been playing a little ASW lately and I've found that there's been several ASW ships competing for the two or three subs the enemy has... I've even seen subs on ASW eat friendly HH when ASW ships fight over enemy sub kills.

I decided pretty quickly that since ASW wasn't going to get me extra experience OR let me actually have some fun, I would just go back to AA.

  • Re : Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    09. 23. 2011 10:40


Demonpaw7
Originally Posted by JimmyEAC

Originally Posted by Demonpaw7

A very easy fix is to award 200% exp boost multiplier for every sub sunk with bonus credits (like AA). Bye bye submarines.



problem is while there's hundreds of planes per battle... at most... theres 10m subs


Thats not a problem. Even if there is only one sub on the other side im sure some monkeys will be keen on killing it.

  • Re : Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    09. 23. 2011 11:08


Invinciblor
Originally Posted by LILITALY5179

A lvl 75 ship should not be able to nuke 4-5+ battleships single handedly. (Don't give me the 'high lvl crew' excuse, because the same arguent does not hold true for the rest of the ship classes in the game and is therefore invalid)


Yeah, because an at-level CV3 crew is going to have any success at all against a CV1 with max level crew.

Originally Posted by Demonpaw7

Originally Posted by JimmyEAC

Originally Posted by Demonpaw7

A very easy fix is to award 200% exp boost multiplier for every sub sunk with bonus credits (like AA). Bye bye submarines.

problem is while there's hundreds of planes per battle... at most... theres 10m subs

Thats not a problem. Even if there is only one sub on the other side im sure some monkeys will be keen on killing it.

You kind of got the point backwards. What are you fixing by giving more XP for ASW? The lack of ASW. If there's way less subs than there are planes, that is definitely a problem if you have as many ASW ships as AA ships.

Nevermind the fact that everyone argues about subs as if the other team is the only side that has them. Subs are really, really good at killing each other.

  • Re : Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    09. 24. 2011 10:14


Humberto20
Easy solution: get ace submarines, and make then kill all enemy subs.

problem solved. thats the best ASW, the subs.

  • Re : Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    09. 24. 2011 19:17


Demonpaw7
Isnt it coz there isnt enough dedicated asw ships that subs seem overpowered? Sure subs are best asw but if there arent opposing subs or one emerges as victor it rules for the rest of the game. But if dedicated asw surface ships are still around then it keeps remaining subs in check. As the game doesnt reward much for attacking or sinking subs therr arent much incentives for higher level players to hop in a dd to hunt subs save for fun or novelty element. Presence of more smarter dedicated asw ships will certainly make sure subs aint top of the food chain but its part of paper scissors rock circle

  • Re : Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    09. 25. 2011 09:59


ljsevern
Actually, submarines can avoid HH fire by using Crit Dive. The Crit dive timer is lower than the timer for HH detonation.

A good sub player > A good asw player.

  • Re : Why Subs are balanced and how to counter-them.

    09. 26. 2011 08:31


SSN762
Crit dive assumes the ss still has air after crawling across the map avoiding enemy fire and got within range, lined up his shots etc.

THere's no way a sub is going to outlast an ASW platform. Once the ASW sees the sub, everything with HH can join the attack.

The truth is, Subs get to charge in, make a strike, and then hope to avoid HH or Main gun fire when they run out of air.

Active subs, that is to say are usually gone long before the battle is decided. The truth is, when I was an SS1, I almost never got to hit ANYTHING, I was out of air before I even traversed the enemy gun range and if I did happen to get somewhere close, they ran away.

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