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New "Eventual" Ships
09. 02. 2011 13:01
 Recommend : 4
RedNemo
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Again good evening....
As i see the BB/CV/SS problem is not solved yet.
What happens i my opinion is that most of the high levels BB have a long lifed crew that they use, they have grinded it and now they are the kings of GB.
Same for CVs.
And then came the SS, small ships who didnt required long grind since they stop in the lvl 70s they specialisationa and grind.
Since is too late to modify SS whitout a complete revolte of their users and actual grinders, I suggest an easy solution (so i hope).
Create a new type of Ships (like a normal ship-line) just that when you wuld go CA or BB you dont, you stay CL so you can use sonar.
The main problem in ASW is that all specialised ships are really low level ships, to use them you need a low level crew, when you go over a determainate level you wont get any exp from that game style, so whats the use of doing it?
to get player used to play a long term ASW wasrfare you must encourage people to use high level crews for that. Because when you are an experienced player a lvl 12 to 60 takes less than 2 weeks.
I am sure that if this is done they would need to improve the subs to make them competitive or sub player would need to get more tactics.
What do you think of that idea?
PS: I edited the thread title cause i realized it sounded like a complaining one. I hope this new one is more neutral
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Re : New "Eventual" Ships
09. 04. 2011 16:13
Cory_O
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I have given this a lot of thought before because my favorite thing to do in this game is AA and ASW. However, I always came to the same (apparently) unavoidable conclusion. It would be OP. Primarily because of the weight of high level crews. You could take these ships, who have tons of displacement for the crews, and put only a BO in it high enough to drive it, then level 45 (for most nations "best" aa guns) sailors on everything else and put HUGE amounts of armor on it.
The only way I can see doing it would involve extra coding. Basically, you make a ship that the sailors weight does not count towards the displacement. Then no matter how high or low your crew is, you will have the same amount of displacement to play with as you see fit.
Personally, I would like to see a few ships added to this game.
Frigates that are nation specific. Think level 20 or so. These could be very specifically dedicated for ASW. Very small fast nimble ships with minimal firepower but capable of carrying a few DC launchers. This is what they were largely used for in WW2 in RL after all.
More destroyers. I love destroyers, and will always welcome more to the lineup.
........................
Back to OP.
To prevent the problem of no one choosing that line of ships (higher level CLs) you could tie it into the BB line around BB2 or BB3. So you stick to cruisers for a while longer but still it ties into the BB line... or if you want to build more skill in the sub player base, you could tie it into the sub line. It would teach people how to sink subs with ships, which would also teach them how to avoid it. Making asw more competitive=fun.
I
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Re : New "Eventual" Ships
09. 04. 2011 16:26
RedNemo
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Originally Posted by Cory_O
To prevent the problem of no one choosing that line of ships (higher level CLs) you could tie it into the BB line around BB2 or BB3. So you stick to cruisers for a while longer but still it ties into the BB line... or if you want to build more skill in the sub player base, you could tie it into the sub line. It would teach people how to sink subs with ships, which would also teach them how to avoid it. Making asw more competitive=fun.
I
sorry to have to cut your quote but id love to keep the topic easily readable. Back to what you propose, I think its not bad, SS and ASW tied toghether, for the weight issue, well you could code the ship as a Non-diving sub, i mean you keep the weight modifier, in order to avoid ultra and OP settings that a small ship with huge discplacemnt would allow. You could make them untied from Lines, in order to allow EVERY player the basic ASW and AA skills, to not have to level up a specific crew, cause very few players do it if it take very long time, in this way you empower the support who is the real forgotten specialisation in this game.
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Re : New "Eventual" Ships
09. 04. 2011 16:36
KingCong
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Originally Posted by Cory_O
I have given this a lot of thought before because my favorite thing to do in this game is AA and ASW. However, I always came to the same (apparently) unavoidable conclusion. It would be OP. Primarily because of the weight of high level crews. You could take these ships, who have tons of displacement for the crews, and put only a BO in it high enough to drive it, then level 45 (for most nations "best" aa guns) sailors on everything else and put HUGE amounts of armor on it.
Those are valid concerns. If these ships were to be implemented, the whole ASW system will need to be reworked. For example, currently, a FFY can hold ~20 DC on their rear T slots with Neut DC launchers. Decent amount. But they can barely hold 5" singles let alone AA guns. On the other hand, any PCA can mount DC rack but only 1 salvo per rack. Similarly an APA can seemingly AW with 16" belt or whatever but they sill get chewed up in blitz due to their low DP. The APA's high disp is to hold high lvl engineers for HA which counteract the crew weight anyway. High lvl asw ships will help out the sub grind more than anything, with current low sub exp. It will also require high lvl sonar and torpmen (if DC ability requirements dont change). A new engine can be implemented with low HP so not to be abused on other ships similar to APA engines but have longer OH time and lower OH ratio so these ships can use their sonar at a fast cruising speed.
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Re : New "Eventual" Ships
09. 04. 2011 17:21
ljsevern
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Originally Posted by KingCong
Originally Posted by Cory_O
I have given this a lot of thought before because my favorite thing to do in this game is AA and ASW. However, I always came to the same (apparently) unavoidable conclusion. It would be OP. Primarily because of the weight of high level crews. You could take these ships, who have tons of displacement for the crews, and put only a BO in it high enough to drive it, then level 45 (for most nations "best" aa guns) sailors on everything else and put HUGE amounts of armor on it.
Those are valid concerns. If these ships were to be implemented, the whole ASW system will need to be reworked. For example, currently, a FFY can hold ~20 DC on their rear T slots with Neut DC launchers. Decent amount. But they can barely hold 5" singles let alone AA guns. On the other hand, any PCA can mount DC rack but only 1 salvo per rack. Similarly an APA can seemingly AW with 16" belt or whatever but they sill get chewed up in blitz due to their low DP. The APA's high disp is to hold high lvl engineers for HA which counteract the crew weight anyway. High lvl asw ships will help out the sub grind more than anything, with current low sub exp. It will also require high lvl sonar and torpmen (if DC ability requirements dont change). A new engine can be implemented with low HP so not to be abused on other ships similar to APA engines but have longer OH time and lower OH ratio so these ships can use their sonar at a fast cruising speed.
Armour weights can be changed, as can speed changes.
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Re : New "Eventual" Ships
09. 05. 2011 06:22
Invinciblor
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I've said it before and I'll say it again--I'd love an escort-class ship line built for supporting roles (escort in the naval sense, e.g. a destroyer, not the NF "extra ship you pay to follow you" sense). I think ASW and AA roles could both be folded into such a ship tree, perhaps as remodels to change T-slots around or possibly just with tree branches or leap-frogging ship designs (one for ASW and the next would be AA, etc).
ASW can be fun, and if it's incentivized appropriately (you already get bonus attack for damaging subs, but some expert gain might be in order too), people will do it.
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Re : New "Eventual" Ships
09. 05. 2011 07:29
NIborGER
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i would like a ASW ship line.
maybe by expanding APA shipline or adding neutral high lvl ships but i would preferr the APA expantion.
Maybe allow those ASW ships to use sub guns to be competetive (200mm vierling etc.)
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Re : New "Eventual" Ships
09. 05. 2011 08:33
Invinciblor
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Originally Posted by NIborGER
i would like a ASW ship line.
maybe by expanding APA shipline or adding neutral high lvl ships but i would preferr the APA expantion.
Maybe allow those ASW ships to use sub guns to be competetive (200mm vierling etc.)
I don't think I would play them if they were neutral ships, because I would have to roll more sailors that way. Grinding three crews is enough for me (KM SS, SN SS, SN CV, plus extra BOs/gunners to help with leveling on CL/CAs). If they're added to all nations, I can re-use my existing torpedo men, gunners, sonar and supports and just level another BO.
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Re : New "Eventual" Ships
09. 05. 2011 09:23
NIborGER
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Originally Posted by Invinciblor
Originally Posted by NIborGER
i would like a ASW ship line.
maybe by expanding APA shipline or adding neutral high lvl ships but i would preferr the APA expantion.
Maybe allow those ASW ships to use sub guns to be competetive (200mm vierling etc.)
I don't think I would play them if they were neutral ships, because I would have to roll more sailors that way. Grinding three crews is enough for me (KM SS, SN SS, SN CV, plus extra BOs/gunners to help with leveling on CL/CAs). If they're added to all nations, I can re-use my existing torpedo men, gunners, sonar and supports and just level another BO.
for the gebinning it would be smart if all nations get same ASW ships after APA and later get exchanged by national unique shpis
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Re : New "Eventual" Ships
09. 05. 2011 10:03
Invinciblor
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Originally Posted by NIborGER
Originally Posted by Invinciblor
I don't think I would play them if they were neutral ships, because I would have to roll more sailors that way. Grinding three crews is enough for me (KM SS, SN SS, SN CV, plus extra BOs/gunners to help with leveling on CL/CAs). If they're added to all nations, I can re-use my existing torpedo men, gunners, sonar and supports and just level another BO.
for the gebinning it would be smart if all nations get same ASW ships after APA and later get exchanged by national unique shpis
I don't mind if the ships initially have no individuality between the different nations, though it would be a very nice touch if they did. It's most important just to be able to use a national crew to man it.
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Re : New "Eventual" Ships
09. 05. 2011 11:13
RedNemo
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Originally Posted by Invinciblor
Originally Posted by NIborGER
Originally Posted by Invinciblor
I don't think I would play them if they were neutral ships, because I would have to roll more sailors that way. Grinding three crews is enough for me (KM SS, SN SS, SN CV, plus extra BOs/gunners to help with leveling on CL/CAs). If they're added to all nations, I can re-use my existing torpedo men, gunners, sonar and supports and just level another BO.
for the gebinning it would be smart if all nations get same ASW ships after APA and later get exchanged by national unique shpis
I don't mind if the ships initially have no individuality between the different nations, though it would be a very nice touch if they did. It's most important just to be able to use a national crew to man it.
In that sense we already proposed something like the ECL of every nation my idea was a new ECL every 20-25 levels, in order to avoid massive esp loss for high level players and not to have a too long grindo b4 being effective for begginers. Outside the lines to allow players who have only 1 BO (and dont want to grind another) to not ragequit this game as soon as he gets the first real long grind in a not-so-cool ships
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