Re : Craigslist ad
11. 20. 2012 21:42

whukid

I guess it all comes down to personal preference, but I'd rather have a weapon that carries 20 rounds than one that carries 10 or 12. The trigger-mounted safety is a feature I rather enjoy since I carry concealed; with a decent holster, one that's made specifically for the Glock that you carry, there is no possible chance of an accidental discharge the same way there's no chance you're going to die while fumbling for the safety.

I used to carry a Kimber 1911 custom II with a compact frame , an accu trigger and some triji-con night sights, but carrying with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked became an issue since it kept getting caught on my person when I'd go to shoot. I'd also have the safety on, but a close friend of mine was killed in Dallas while he was fumbling the safety on his Remington 1911. Of course, there were other parts to the story, but when he was fatally stabbed, he was messing with the safety since his hand wasn't seated properly

Right now I'm waiting to go off to bootcamp with the marines, and I work as a Pizza Delivery guy in a semi-college town but with very sketchy parts. I find that carrying a pistol on my trips is too cumbersome, so I keep a Ruger Mini-14 with a Leapers UTG Red-dot under the bench seat in my truck and just carry two twenty round mags on me instead.

A co-worker of mine carries a shotgun in his Prius (he used to be a super-pacifist freak job) after he got mugged and beat so badly he almost died. I was honored to help him pick a Mossberg 500 and get it rigged with some cool extras

:)

Re : Craigslist ad
11. 21. 2012 10:21

Shimakaze

I want that decision making process of releasing the safety. Have never had ( knock on wood) a problem with drawing the 1911 frame and getting it caught or not being able to release the safety, it is pretty much all one instinctive move, which is what training is for.

I would much rather have law enforcement have a manual safety release, I think there would be fewr " accidental" shootings from law enforcement if they had to make that decision to fire.

And really, no one out side of the military really needs to fire 15-20 rounds. A few years ago, we had a cop chase a kid off a bus that he thought had a gun (kid did not), running through town firing at this kid. The officer fired 26 rounds from his Beretta 92. Having been through the acacemy, that guy should have been forced to go through training all over again, no excuse for it, broke so many rules as to have been a far greater threat on the street that any dozen gang members.

Re : Craigslist ad
11. 21. 2012 11:54

whukid

Originally Posted by Shimakaze

I want that decision making process of releasing the safety. Have never had ( knock on wood) a problem with drawing the 1911 frame and getting it caught or not being able to release the safety, it is pretty much all one instinctive move, which is what training is for.

I would much rather have law enforcement have a manual safety release, I think there would be fewr " accidental" shootings from law enforcement if they had to make that decision to fire.

And really, no one out side of the military really needs to fire 15-20 rounds. A few years ago, we had a cop chase a kid off a bus that he thought had a gun (kid did not), running through town firing at this kid. The officer fired 26 rounds from his Beretta 92. Having been through the acacemy, that guy should have been forced to go through training all over again, no excuse for it, broke so many rules as to have been a far greater threat on the street that any dozen gang members.

The Baretta 92 only comes in 10 or 15 round variants and doesn't have a trigger-mounted safety, which kind've goes against your point. I'm sure you knew that anyway, but to avoid confusion for everyone associated with the thread, I'll leave the link below.
http://www.berettausa.com/products/beretta-92-fs-made-in-usa/

I also don't think that you can really judge what anyone else "needs", since everyone has different needs and that's a REALLY slippery slope. What's the difference between "you don't need 20 rounds" and "you don't need a semi-automatic handgun"? As far as I'm concerned, you should be allowed to walk around with a decked-out AR-15 should you feel the need.

That being said, I believe that people who carry concealed have about the same or even more experience in a lethal situation; when was the last time a Cop you knew went through a thousand rounds at the range in a week, just for fun? The vast majority of people I've ever heard about carrying concealed have done atleast one trip to a Gunsite location and taken their self defense course, or something of the type. Where Police are being told that they need to keep the other guy alive unless he tries to kill them, CCW courses teach to kill once you pull your weapon, since there is no other reason for using it in a self defense situation.

All that stuff aside though, I think the biggest thing for me is A. The Glock 26's size and B. the Glock's reliablilty compared to a 1911. The latter has a thousand round break-in period, and isn't exactly known for it's reliability anymore. The magazines are less durable IMO and unless you spend a few bucks extra, they're just as prone to jamming as that old one that you got when you purchased the gun itself.

I guess to each his own, but when I have to pull a weapon in self defense, I have no intention of taking prisoners or "scaring away" the bad guy. Obviously your opinion is just as good as mine, however I think you should take into consideration that if/when you have to pull your weapon in self defense, you most likely won't have time to put a round in the chamber and then mess with the safety. I find that most people who believe the latter harbor the same subconcious anti-gun beliefs that the Brady bunch does, but that's okay. Your level of comfort with your weapon should determine whether or not you carry it with a round in the chamber and ready to go. I was taught these rules at the CCW course I took;

1. Your weapon will not discharge if you do not pull the trigger

2. Safeties break or malfunction just as much as any other gun part.

3. If/When the time comes for you to act in self defense, you may not have enough of it to be messing with the safety, as you're already spending time pulling your weapon out and conciously identifying targets.

4. Without a round in the chamber, you're carrying a small club. see point 3

and the last one

5. Never pull your weapon unless you intend to kill your opponent. There is no excuse for using your firearm in any other manner, as you endanger yourself and those around you, as well as open yourself up to legal action. When you pull your weapon and fire in self defense, you no longer have the ability to play nice. You must either kill your opponent or concede to their demands.

Should you let your opponent survive, you open yourself up to new threats. Firstly, your opponent may be able to return fire, which he cannot do if he is dead. Second, your opponent can change the story to benefit hisself, which he cannot do if he is dead. Thirdly, if he is associated with a gang, he can relay to what level you are prepared to defend yourself and by what means you have available to do so. THis, he also cannot do if he is dead, for dead men tell no tales, nor return fire.

To end my super-post, think of it this way; The moment you pull a weapon in any type of defense situation, you've escalated it beyond the point of no return. Bad guys don't play by the rules; they won't wait for you to fire first and they don't point guns at people for any reason other than to control or kill them.

While you've never said that you carry without a round in the chamber, I believe that's the direction this conversation is going

Re : Craigslist ad
11. 22. 2012 12:10

ChicagoBears

Originally Posted by whukid

Originally Posted by Shimakaze

I want that decision making process of releasing the safety. Have never had ( knock on wood) a problem with drawing the 1911 frame and getting it caught or not being able to release the safety, it is pretty much all one instinctive move, which is what training is for.

I would much rather have law enforcement have a manual safety release, I think there would be fewr " accidental" shootings from law enforcement if they had to make that decision to fire.

And really, no one out side of the military really needs to fire 15-20 rounds. A few years ago, we had a cop chase a kid off a bus that he thought had a gun (kid did not), running through town firing at this kid. The officer fired 26 rounds from his Beretta 92. Having been through the acacemy, that guy should have been forced to go through training all over again, no excuse for it, broke so many rules as to have been a far greater threat on the street that any dozen gang members.

The Baretta 92 only comes in 10 or 15 round variants and doesn't have a trigger-mounted safety, which kind've goes against your point. I'm sure you knew that anyway, but to avoid confusion for everyone associated with the thread, I'll leave the link below.
http://www.berettausa.com/products/beretta-92-fs-made-in-usa/

I also don't think that you can really judge what anyone else "needs", since everyone has different needs and that's a REALLY slippery slope. What's the difference between "you don't need 20 rounds" and "you don't need a semi-automatic handgun"? As far as I'm concerned, you should be allowed to walk around with a decked-out AR-15 should you feel the need.

That being said, I believe that people who carry concealed have about the same or even more experience in a lethal situation; when was the last time a Cop you knew went through a thousand rounds at the range in a week, just for fun? The vast majority of people I've ever heard about carrying concealed have done atleast one trip to a Gunsite location and taken their self defense course, or something of the type. Where Police are being told that they need to keep the other guy alive unless he tries to kill them, CCW courses teach to kill once you pull your weapon, since there is no other reason for using it in a self defense situation.

All that stuff aside though, I think the biggest thing for me is A. The Glock 26's size and B. the Glock's reliablilty compared to a 1911. The latter has a thousand round break-in period, and isn't exactly known for it's reliability anymore. The magazines are less durable IMO and unless you spend a few bucks extra, they're just as prone to jamming as that old one that you got when you purchased the gun itself.

I guess to each his own, but when I have to pull a weapon in self defense, I have no intention of taking prisoners or "scaring away" the bad guy. Obviously your opinion is just as good as mine, however I think you should take into consideration that if/when you have to pull your weapon in self defense, you most likely won't have time to put a round in the chamber and then mess with the safety. I find that most people who believe the latter harbor the same subconcious anti-gun beliefs that the Brady bunch does, but that's okay. Your level of comfort with your weapon should determine whether or not you carry it with a round in the chamber and ready to go. I was taught these rules at the CCW course I took;

1. Your weapon will not discharge if you do not pull the trigger

2. Safeties break or malfunction just as much as any other gun part.

3. If/When the time comes for you to act in self defense, you may not have enough of it to be messing with the safety, as you're already spending time pulling your weapon out and conciously identifying targets.

4. Without a round in the chamber, you're carrying a small club. see point 3

and the last one

5. Never pull your weapon unless you intend to kill your opponent. There is no excuse for using your firearm in any other manner, as you endanger yourself and those around you, as well as open yourself up to legal action. When you pull your weapon and fire in self defense, you no longer have the ability to play nice. You must either kill your opponent or concede to their demands.

Should you let your opponent survive, you open yourself up to new threats. Firstly, your opponent may be able to return fire, which he cannot do if he is dead. Second, your opponent can change the story to benefit hisself, which he cannot do if he is dead. Thirdly, if he is associated with a gang, he can relay to what level you are prepared to defend yourself and by what means you have available to do so. THis, he also cannot do if he is dead, for dead men tell no tales, nor return fire.

To end my super-post, think of it this way; The moment you pull a weapon in any type of defense situation, you've escalated it beyond the point of no return. Bad guys don't play by the rules; they won't wait for you to fire first and they don't point guns at people for any reason other than to control or kill them.

While you've never said that you carry without a round in the chamber, I believe that's the direction this conversation is going

If someone has a gun pointed at you and you draw your gun, in that split-second moment it's either kill or be killed. If you draw your gun then be ready to fire and kill the "bad guy".

Re : Craigslist ad
11. 22. 2012 15:49

whukid	Yes. Making the concious decision to release the safety uses an awful lot of that "split-second" up.

Re : Craigslist ad
11. 23. 2012 13:42

Shimakaze

The referrence to the trigger safety was directed to the post about the Glock. The referrence to the Beretta 92 was with regards to a cop, running through the streets of a city chasing an unarmed kid and shooting to the point where he had to drop the magazine and reload. I was on call that night, we mobilized for multiple gun injuries thinking that we had a gang fight going on. Fortunately this incredibly poor excuse for a cop hit no on. Unfurtanetely, he only received on month of paid suspension.

In the two situations where I have had to draw my weapon, releasing the safety did not in anyway, decrease my response time. If you train with your weapon, comfortable with its use, releasing a manualy safety will not interfere with your response time. Having a trigger safety, with its increase trigger weight, really provides no conscious response to releasing of a safety.

Where I shoot, I have three law enforcement groups that shoot at the same location, two city and one county. I can out shoot all of the city cops that show up there, there are fair number of the county deputies that can out shoot me. Most of the city cops spend just enought time on the range to make their standards.

When we teach people for their CCW permit, we place them in wheel guns. We have them progress to semis only after two more courses, but we recommend that they stay with the revolvers unless they are willing to shoot weekly or with one of the clubs. We have a large number of people who take that advice and carry revolvers.

Police today in the USA are not trained to keep the other guy alive, far from it. Police today are taught that if they feel they are threatened, to shoot until the threat is eliminated. Decades ago, when I went through the academy that was not the case. That is why we see more rounds fired by law enforcement in the first 10 years of this century than we saw towards the end of the last century.

We had two events recently that demonstrated why giving law enforcement high capacity guns with training that encourages the use of multiple rounds is a bad idea for society. One was a home intrusion where a young boy was grabbed and held by knife point in the yard when the police showed up. 5 officers, 17 rounds later, the boy and the robber were both dead, and that was with a watch commander on the scene. The other was a bank robbery, note from the robber said he had a gun, no gun was seen at the time. Robber steps out the the bank, told to put hands up, one cop thinks he sees a gun, opens fire, two others join in, 12 rounds fired, robber dead, two people in the bank hit. A remarkably stupid move on the part of the police, as he could just as easily run back into the bank. Training from decades ago would be to wait for him to move away from the door of the bank and be more sure of the back drop incase of having to shoot.

High capacity guns are a concern, in the hands of the citizen or in the hands of law enforcement. What we have seen with no doubt is that law enfocement is firing more rounds today than they did 20 years ago, and it is not related to crime figures, as they show a drop, especially over the last 10 years in violent crime.

Giving law enforcement high capacity guns with training that encourages the

Re : Craigslist ad
11. 25. 2012 16:35

CPOSeal

Originally Posted by limbaugh

Good thing the crazies who wet themselves over how the guns they carry around will keep them safe and stop crime won't ever hit anyone. They could endanger innocent lives and get in the way when law enforcement tries to do something.

You are an idiot that will blame everyone else as the problem instead identifiying the actual problem in this case....which is he was being robbed and protected himself and his girl. We carry our consealed weapons with responsibility and hundreds of thousands of us that carry every day did not commit a crime nor hurt anyone. Most of us are all well trained and educated.
People like you tend to forget that it is because of the gun and the patriots that carry them were responsible for our freedom. It is because of the man that continues to stand a post with that gun is why we continue to have that freedom. If you dont like guns, go to Europe or Asia and become a slave to the government.
We carry a gun because a cop is just to heavy and hard to conseal!!

Re : Craigslist ad
11. 26. 2012 08:12

CabaL90

Originally Posted by CPOSeal

Originally Posted by limbaugh

Good thing the crazies who wet themselves over how the guns they carry around will keep them safe and stop crime won't ever hit anyone. They could endanger innocent lives and get in the way when law enforcement tries to do something.

You are an idiot that will blame everyone else as the problem instead identifiying the actual problem in this case....which is he was being robbed and protected himself and his girl. We carry our consealed weapons with responsibility and hundreds of thousands of us that carry every day did not commit a crime nor hurt anyone. Most of us are all well trained and educated.
People like you tend to forget that it is because of the gun and the patriots that carry them were responsible for our freedom. It is because of the man that continues to stand a post with that gun is why we continue to have that freedom. If you dont like guns, go to Europe or Asia and become a slave to the government.
We carry a gun because a cop is just to heavy and hard to conseal!!

Amazing point mate! :) +1

There isn't a cop every square inch of a city so the people who have a firearm and a concealed permit carry one so they can protect them selves on their own.

Re : Craigslist ad
11. 26. 2012 10:11

Shimakaze	And no one wants a cop on every corner, in every doorway, constantly watching over your shoulder.

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