Ladies and gentlemen,

May I present the true colors of cracko. The greatest authority on game balance since sk_bismarck

Some people have the power to change sub-play....the exact same power given to everyone in the test server forum section. To provide evidence and then let the Devs decide what to do.

I do love how your only response is to subtly admonish the players that bring this up and accuse them of some unforeseen power, of which they don't have.

I mean, look at all that power they have...they were able to raise the level of the SS5s a grand total of 6 levels and do exactly jack-else to the ships. Look at all those nerfs! Why, they're unplayable now.

But, what do I know, I'm just an old dinosaur BB player that doesn't know how to adapt. That's why I only play the 4 original BB nations and cry softly to myself when people don't join normal rooms.

*eye roll*

But sure, it is a coincidence that the people involved in all incarnations of ONF or balancing since Obst was running it are the people that have been playing for years, have ships of every nation and type, referee in fleet events and fleet wars, in leadership positions in fleets that have been around for years, former TNF members, and the ones that spend hours on the test server doing retarded range and damage tests. All of that doesn't matter, it's because we post a ton on the forums.

Brilliant analysis.

***To add:
When people provide damage tables that show BB6s can be sunk by level 77 ships with partial salvos or that bulge does little if anything to prevent more than one full salvo or that subs can dive faster than HHs can explode or the ridiculous overpowered KM sub gun or half a dozen other things....the proper response isn't "Nuh-uh, you just don't know how to play. Learn to adapt, it is fine. PHH are overpowered, they aren't fair".

It's no wonder that opinion doesn't get recognized...

If people spent the five minutes needed to see that many players want sub play altered with things like INCREASED air time, HH damage NERFS, torp ammo INCREASES to coincide with fixing splash damage and slowing them down...they'd stop complaining as much.

Or, they are biased.

Oh snap, my current tier sub is not as overpowered as my last tier sub..... =.=

The kM SS are totally over powered! Now when they loose a fraction of there super power players go crazy! Try levelling all the old nations SS and you have an idea why they make all the other nations SS look rubbish. That is not balance.

The old guard really did nothing to balance them before introduction so I don't think any blame falls on them.

What an odd reaction! I thought they were going to get flamed for leaving them overpowered! But infact we see some true colors of players wanting ships stupidly powerful.

improvements over ss4 are:

more torps

more space for crew

more slots

smaller ship to hit

new torps (which could affect reload) seem to be faster and longer range than teh ss4's

no extra weight of miniguns

cool color (the dark grey deck is awesome

more air ( i can make it to the battle line with over half tank of air left)

longer duration of OH like 3 mins or something (yet to time mine still)

more armor i can put on 9 blukhead (possible of longer time in critical (theory))...i can stay under well over a min while the average sub can stay under for 50 secs before hitting the red

its fresh and something new to play after playin with ss4 for almost 2 years straight

....so to me this ship is awesome .. if it was like most people would want it would be brutal for anyone out there... the KMss4 is still one of the best subs and to make a ship better than that would bring out the sub haters even more

every class of subs have its own styles from 1-5 they all have their own advantages.... we just have to wait to find the trick with ss5

A way to address this problem and make everyone happy, and make the ss5/future ss6 more versatile, is to just make the different tiers of subs not simply better in every way than their counterparts. Try giving them more air, more durable, more torps, but lower the torp damage. Make it so an ss isn't simply asw'd or killing everything in front of it until it runs out of air and gets shot once. It's always great to see a late game ss that isn't single handedly backhanding the other team but is still doing work.

SS can't be constant improvements like (the majority) of BB tiers are. Otherwise by the time SDE makes an SS6 we'll all either get one or pack up and go home cuz it will kill every ship with a name above it's sprite.

I think they'd be a lot more fun this way too, if your success wasn't (for the majority of players) prodominantly a matter of "let's see how many ships I can sink until I'm asw'd or run out of air".

Best thing isn't always to listen to everyone's complaining and then satisfy it with "nerf this/boost that", it's making an environment that encourages you to strive towards balance. Rock Paper Scissors. If everyone's choosing Rock these days, Paper it is. Especially with the events encouraging different gametypes. This is how the game's been going for a while anyways. Natural selection and all that. I'm seeing a thousand asw CLs/DDs cuz everyone knows people want their new subs. Doesn't mean I have to complain about asw when I'm in my sub, just means I won't rush out on the start of the map. Adapting isn't hard, people just want to think -their- preferred way of doing things is the way the game should work.

I'll believe the SS5 is overpowered when I see as many lvl100 ships leaving the field in the early minutes of the battle as I do SS.