Heh, but you winning the war was probably better for the world then the other possible result. For me I'm just thankful you didn't nuke my hometown. :S

america f yeah ?

No, don't get me wrong! I'm really happy the Nazi's and their allies lost. Everyone who fought them did the world (and me) a favor. My dig was pointed more in the direction, that despite fighting for the right thing not every move was an act of class. War is terrible and when it's over everyone has blood on their hands.

indeed.... but its the idiots wich are saying that america saved the world etc that annoys me expecially people wich want an event for where people died.... and then claim if it wasnt for that day we would all be under axis currently

True, Germany already lost the war by invading Russia. Great Britain, the Commonwealth and Russia were never going to lose the European war. If Britain had been invaded, the British Government would have moved to Canada, and without bombers able to fly from Germany/France to Canada, the only way to invade was sea power.

The main victor in the European war was Russia. If all the German troops were not killed or tied up defending the Russian Front, the war would have been prolonged for much longer, and maybe Germany would have been able to develop their new submarines and nuclear bombs.

As for the Pacific war, of course USA was the main victor, but you must not forget the enormous contributions by countries such as Australia, Great Britain, Canada, China (which had officially been at war since 1937, and Japan was already annexing Chinese territory since the late 1800s), India, Russia (yes Russia had been at war with Japan for a short time during 1939.), The Netherlands etc.

As for whether Pearl Harbour was a sea battle, I think it was because American ships were attacked by Japanese planes launched from ships and although the Americans were surprised, they fought back well.

Let us remember ALL the victims of ALL wars.

They didn't lose by invading the SU. They lost because Hitler was a moron. His intervention in his generals plans lost them the war. If they concentrated all of their war effort to destroy/capture Moscow, the SU would have collapsed.

Some examples of Hitler's foolishness:
He didn't see the importance of the me262, if mass produced the Luftwaffe would've been able to stop the bombing of Germany.

It was his fault the Wehrmacht wasn't properly equipped for the winter, since he believed that it would make his soldiers fight harder to end the war sooner. This led to the unnecessarily hampering of the German forces during the first winter.

He f(*)(ed up his generals plan of invading the SU, so the majority of the Luftwaffe was flying in the North while most of the panzerdivisions were driving south. < Like I said, there was no real spearhead.

At Stalingrad the whole 6th army was destroyed, because he didn't want Paulus to retreat.That fat bastard Goring convinced him that the Luftwaffe could supply drop them, which was impossible. At this stage the germans lost themomentum.

The battle of Kursk was the last chance for the Germans to destroy SU. If the Wehrmacht pushed through they would've regained the upper hand at the Eastern Theater. But Hitler ordered to halt all operations just before they managed to push through. And he moved some essential armored divisions to Sicily meaning they wouldn't see combat for the next three months.

This man while genius at politics was a complete fail at commanding his forces.

No you 'bro' get ur facts straight. Hitler lost himself the war by doing this not the SU.
[IMG]http://www.yellow-llama.com/wp-content/uploads/hitler.jpg[/IMG]

lol stupid img tags dont work --> scissors beat paper

[QUOTE=Siegjohnny]


No you 'bro' get ur facts straight. Hitler lost himself the war by doing this not the SU.
[IMG]http://www.yellow-llama.com/wp-content/uploads/hitler.jpg[/IMG]

lol stupid img tags dont work --> scissors beat paper
[/QUOTE]


I'm telling you bro. You don't invade Russia and win.

YOU DO NOT INVADE SOVIET RUSSIA! SOVIET RUSSIA INVADES YOU!!!!!!