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  • Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 03. 2011 17:29


Shinda_Niku



1. This is the biggest reason for me, and a very common reason for other CVs I have spoken to. "PURE SPITE" .  yes that's right.  Because even when I did do it, there's always 1 or 2 BBs calling us "Noobs" and much less savory things because  there's still no vision or air-cover because my low level non wallet warriored fighters are burning wreckage for my efforts.

So out of "SPITE",  I refuse to scout at all when my own team starts hurling insults.  I really don't care if we loose and I die at this point.  Just as long as all the abnoctious kids go down with me. And its not just that game either.  I carry a grudge and continue to do it for several games, even all night because of little unsupervised children who cant keep there mouths shut.

At this point your best bet is to use your own scouts and push forward to visual range, because I really don't care if we all get slaughtered.  I'm just going to keep border humping and pushing bombers.


But amazingly, It only takes ONE polite request to get me to change my mind.  When I hear requests for CV support that DONT include the word "Noob"  or other profanity,  I start pushing fighters and attempting to cover the blind spots. Even tho I'm likely throwing planes against level 120 wallet warriors flying Boosted max vetted elite Wonder fighters, or  Heavy cruisers armed with  nothing but massively overpowered AA weapons that vaporize my guys in seconds.  a severe game imbalance IMO.


So next time, Certain people should try not acting like over indulged twelve year olds,  and perhaps you will see more fighter cover or scouting.


/END HEATED RANT

 

  • Re : Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 06. 2011 18:02


Rehor
Originally Posted by Kampfstaffel

If I have a good group of BBs . . .


This is not against you, it's just my sweeping generalistic view of CV players:

They wouldn't know a good BB (or group of BB's) if they played all day and all night with them, or if they played all day and all night against them. So typically it's fleet tag blinders or complete ineptitude that guides CV play.

Anyway, I had the lock comment in this thread three days ago. Why is this still open?

  • Re : Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 06. 2011 19:38


ljsevern
Originally Posted by normpearii

Solution to being blind for more than 20 seconds.

A.) Rush out, get sunk, Go to the next room in 2 minutes.
B.) Run, wait 10 minutes to lose, waste another 10 minutes to get in another battle.
C.) Call the CV a noob and get yourself one shot.


So, just quitting the room and let other realize they won't win by flying bombers into waves of fighters.


If I can scout south with T2 fighters against a CV6 and PCV, you can scout too.
If I can kill lvl 90+ T3s with Undervetted lvl 60 T2s, You can kill planes too.
If I can get bombers around the enemy without border humping, So can you.
If I can scout by myself, so can you.
If I can bomber whore and keep south light up at the same time, so can you.
If I can sink ships when blind occasionally, so can you.
If I can sink the enemy CV fighter camping me and my team with bombers to win the sky, so can you.
If I can get T3 scouts off while being fighter camped with T4 Fighters, So can you.

Reminder to CVs, all your EXP is shared..... Aka Win = Exp. Hint Hint.

Reminder to BBs, 90% your EXP is EARNED, aka Attack = EXP, waiting on a CV to scout for you is wasting time you could get attack.

Solution to everyone, play smart and don't rely on others to lose the game for you. Win it yourself.


I would like to know how it is possible for a BB to scout when he is being fighter camped.

  • Re : Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 06. 2011 19:41


Rehor
Originally Posted by ljsevern

I would like to know how it is possible for a BB to scout when he is being fighter camped.


Cue hotshot CV player telling you to AA everything in sight . . . so he can bomb.

  • Re : Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 06. 2011 20:47


FalleNStaR
Originally Posted by Kampfstaffel

If I have a good group of BBs I will sacrifice my fts to help them see but this means.

BBs have to:

Stop shooting the little DDs and FFs that are suicidal. (as the enemy BBs tear you up)
Try AND hit enemy BBs
STOP playing as an AA and shooting down my fts before they even leave the front line (this goes for all AA friendly’s)
Stop WHINNING you cant see because all the red dots are blocking your vision of the battle.


HMmmm no. BBs NEED to shoot smaller craft. Shoot AA to help CVs give them vision. Shoot ASW to help SS harass enemy line AND not let through enemy SS. If it comes into range shoot it, within reason of course,

Originally Posted by Kampfstaffel

AA ships friendly ships:

STOP SHOOTING DOWN MY FTS!!!! I really am happy you got that little scout after 200 shells...... but shooting down my fts that chase it down doesnt help the team.


HMmm no. Sure occasionally you get the odd nub who does as you described but they are not too common. I CV and AA and if that freakin scout is circling around with Ftrs for 5secs or more I will open fire. 5secs is an eternity in this game.

  • Re : Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 07. 2011 06:39


Kampfstaffel
Originally Posted by FalleNStaR

Originally Posted by Kampfstaffel

If I have a good group of BBs I will sacrifice my fts to help them see but this means.

BBs have to:

Stop shooting the little DDs and FFs that are suicidal. (as the enemy BBs tear you up)
Try AND hit enemy BBs
STOP playing as an AA and shooting down my fts before they even leave the front line (this goes for all AA friendly’s)
Stop WHINNING you cant see because all the red dots are blocking your vision of the battle.


HMmmm no. BBs NEED to shoot smaller craft. Shoot AA to help CVs give them vision. Shoot ASW to help SS harass enemy line AND not let through enemy SS. If it comes into range shoot it, within reason of course,

Originally Posted by Kampfstaffel

AA ships friendly ships:

STOP SHOOTING DOWN MY FTS!!!! I really am happy you got that little scout after 200 shells...... but shooting down my fts that chase it down doesnt help the team.


HMmm no. Sure occasionally you get the odd nub who does as you described but they are not too common. I CV and AA and if that freakin scout is circling around with Ftrs for 5secs or more I will open fire. 5secs is an eternity in this game.


1st...NO, DDs, CL, and CAs can take care of the smaller ships that are suicial, DDs that are not suicidal on your team can get some massive xp if they took out the SS by hanging close to the BB ranks, but they dont. I agree with you on the whole BBs shooting AA, but they never do.

2nd... I like to send my fts to cover enemy ships, some lag behind trying to get the silly scout that hover over head, and despite how many times you keep clicking the fts want to kill that scout, and as you try to lead out the enemy fts by taking them out is when you get AA, but If you have your T2 fighters trying to go out and they are being ate up by enemy T4s, i see no problem shooting AA threw mine to kill the enemy's vision.

  • Re : Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 07. 2011 06:48


Kampfstaffel
Originally Posted by Rehor

Originally Posted by Kampfstaffel

If I have a good group of BBs . . .


This is not against you, it's just my sweeping generalistic view of CV players:

They wouldn't know a good BB (or group of BB's) if they played all day and all night with them, or if they played all day and all night against them. So typically it's fleet tag blinders or complete ineptitude that guides CV play.

Anyway, I had the lock comment in this thread three days ago. Why is this still open?


Well... i know when im the last man standing on my side... i stop my cv, and it takes the BBs about 8-10 shots to hit a non moving CV5... well i would put those in the "BAD group". Also when 8 of the 10 BBs go to north or south again BAD group. (I admit cvs do it too, but they can shift around later)

TRUE there are some GREAT BB players out there and I will call it when i see it.

Oh and about your bombing comment.... I normally have sent out and lost 56 fts before even touching the bombers, because i know whats the point of sending out DB ot TB only to be ate up by enemy fts. Controling the sky is key to good CVing

"hotshot" think not, just a player, willing to work with the team to win.

  • Re : Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 07. 2011 10:00


Willbonney
The one benefit of playing KM BB's, great AA ability.

It's one thing I don't understand why more KM BB's either have no AA guns on at all, or have them and don't use them. KM boats are paper thin, doesn't take more then two salvos from a Lion2 or Montana to have us down.

Set your T slots up, stay just behind the front edge of your BB line, and shoot down enemy planes until enemy BB's come into range of you. Let them come to you, don't go to them. Tired of seeing 39's and 44's go rushing in and get one or two shot, when AA'ing could have made the other side blind.

Now, I'm not saying that is all you should do, or should even be the focus... A BB not doing attack damage is pretty worthless. But if you spend the first 3-4 minutes of the battle doing so, your CV's will have a much easier time gaining air superiority, and then all you have left to do is fire of some HE or AP.

Oh, and lastly, if you see a Lion1 or 2 without a rear gun, quit firing HE. Those multi salvos of 0's and 10's are embarassing.

  • Re : Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 07. 2011 10:41


Lionel2
There are different ways to attack any tactical problem. It depends on the abilities and ships of the players on both sides. In a realistic, military application, a leader or his staff would pick the best course of action and apply it to his units.

The problem here is that there can't be a leader in a pick-up game. Even people I don't like have made some valid points about the application of air power. Some key military concepts at issue here are:

- economy of force (you want to use the resources you got without wasting them)
- objective (having one goal or having prioritized goals with one being the main goal)
- mass ( you want to put all your combat power at the right place and time)
- unity of command (there can only be one leader)


A waste of resources would be scouts sitting parked on BBs and never being launched. Another waste of resources would be AA ships holding fire while fighters duke it out over their heads. The principle of economy of force would dictate that these assets should be scouting while other assets should be employed else where. As LJ pointed out, BBs can't launch scouts if they are fighter camped and as Rehor pointed out, sometimes AA just can't keep the skies clear.

Thus, obviously, the objective of the CV should be to control the skies so the BBs can launch scouts. The problem here is that by doing so, you can't fighter camp the other side. This is the issue of Air Superiority vs Air Supremacy. If the other CV is even somewhat competent and equip with fighters, you can't expect Air Supremacy all the time. You can however chose where you want to control the air, either above your BBs or above their BBs.

Common CV doctrine is to control the air over the enemy, allowing your BBs to shoot based on the fighters sight, and giving up the reasource of the scouts. This violates the principle of economy of force on one hand by allowing the scouts to sit on the deck, however on the other end, it reinforces this principle as otherwise your AA ships are employed. Its LJ's theory of limiting fighter sight that changes this dynamic, forcing scouts to be used by limiting fighter ability.

The best way to overcoming this issue with the current fighters, is to properly utilize the issue of mass. If there are two south and two north CVs, first, they should work in pairs and mass all their fighters in the air above, or in front of their own BB line, then work out, until they are controlling the airspace over the enemy. By massing all the fighters in a sweep using sectors, you can then use the AA to pick off stragglers or occasional border humpers, and the BBs are free to launch scouts for improved vision. You may not have the air supremecy for the entire game, at all locations, but you have superiority over both locations, AT THE TIME IT MATTERS.

This concept will fail every time. There is no unity of command and the CVs will do individually whatever, whenever. My previous issue with another poster here was that a simple note in my mailbox saying "hey, this is what you did and this is how you can do it better" would have been welcome and respected. Instead, flaming, or "CV NOOB" and "VISION" are simple time wasted. BBs calling for air cover and vision at the same time will lead to failure unless you have coordination between multiple CVs.

The final issue to this whole thing is the reality of what happens when your fighters are just beat? There are some CVs out there with L120s and they know how to drag them. All the "CV launch fighter" comments in the world won't fix that. In an ideal world, a leader would be able to direct his assets to over come that. My own opinion is that the fighters shouldn't engage over his own side, let the AA shoot, and instead focus on keeping the battle over the enemy. After all, if you are going to lose, its better to have the enemy waste their fuel tracking down your fighters and on their side and limiting their opportunity for sight, as opposed to your own.

  • Re : Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 07. 2011 11:20


GenHex
Originally Posted by ljsevern


I would like to know how it is possible for a BB to scout when he is being fighter camped.


I know you know the answer to this ljsevern so not to looking to flame, but for those not knowing it is best to carry AA on BBs to shoot at planes over you. This will give a momentary lapse to allow your BB scout to be launched to scout the position properly which then helps your BB/CVs get fighters up across their own BB line quickly to help protect your scouts being over the opposing lines from fighters(not AA of course). As a CV player it does help having that scout for us CV's as well so we can spot bombers and takes them out while trying to protect your scouts. As for AA is cause the CV's to get an out of sync fighter launch operation thereby slowing us down to get another wave up. So this makes the team with the stronger AA win despite the fighter combat results. So goes to show even though another CV has higher level fighters does not guarantee a win for visual acuity.

  • Re : Why many CVs refuse to Scout.

    12. 07. 2011 13:09


OttoReinhold
Originally Posted by GenHex
I know you know the answer to this ljsevern so not to looking to flame, but for those not knowing it is best to carry AA on BBs to shoot at planes over you.

Haha, you have no idea. When you're fighter camped and blind in a BB this wont help at all. Shooting down fighters that are camping you takes an eternity. During that time the enemy BBs will attack and your part of the line is lost.

BBs carry AA for other reasons. The most important one is to shoot down enemy scouts. And this becomes most important when you're fighting 1-vs-1 against another BB while no CVs are involved on either side.

Your job as a CV is not to protect our scouts. We can (and should) maneuver them in a way so that we stay out of the way of enemy AA and fighters. Your job is to make it possible for us to use our scouts. Sometimes you need to break us free from fighter camps. Sometimes you need to open up passages for us to send our scouts to the enemy. And sometimes you can utterly dominate the air giving us an easy time to farm their BBs. And sometimes you fail. Your failings aren't the end of the world if you did so while trying the former things to your best. Nobody is perfect.

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