I pondered the thought of Cities vs Rural people. It ended up the deer hunters won the
day... go figure...

back on topic...

its a mixed bag of opinions, the kind that you'd like to light afire on the oppositions
porch after you wrung their doorbell... (either way, its stinks, looks cool if its a shared
opinion, and anyone who decides to extinguish it has to deal with crap)

Larryj13: There are whales in the north pacific and the Japanese hunt whales there also.
Those whales would be cheap enough for your average joe to buy a steak now and again.
The sea shepard would oppose commercial farming of any animal. sea animal or not,
they just seem to have a real hard on for mammals for some reason. maybe because the
places where this show is shown people don't eat mammals in fact in most of America you
can only see other specie of mammal at the zoo. So most all Americans will have never
heard of eating mammals, and so would vote anti whale killing.

P.S. Emma9 about your "I hope u loose all your crops and die" thing. Ok next year I wont
plant any crops and if every other farmer did the same thing.....all year long..... I
wonder how long you would still look at the world out side of the city as suppose to be
wild woods a "no go off limits to humans area" lets see how long that works.
You do realize when you cook up some corn it could be mine right?

I just have to ask... how cheap do you think it is to sail to the south pole for whales?

Found some more ammo for respective arguments.

Here's the International Whaling Commissions website with comments on research whaling
permits. http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/permits.htm
Apparently they've been asking Japan not to issue permits for research in some areas(by a
narrow margin of votes), especially the Southern Whale Sanctuary that has been in place
since 1938 (long before any whaling moratorium.) There's no reason to do harvesting
research in a no harvest zone. There's also been a harvesting plan in place for resumption
of whaling since 1994.
However it has never been implemented due a disagreement over how/if scientific whaling
would continue.

Here's the website for Japan's Institute for Cetacean Research.
http://www.icrwhale.org/abouticr.htm
It definitely tells things from their perspective.
"As a result of the IWC's Draconian, and unscientific, regulations and positions, then,
all Japanese whaling has been forced to contract substantially. The social, economic, and
cultural losses to Japan's whaling communities and to Japan are significant."
They also have some convincing pictures of the Sea Shepherd's ship ramming two Japanese
vessels.


From what I see, if the Japanese would agree to more international control over "research
whaling" then commercial whaling would have resumed some time ago.

*Found another pro-whaling site http://www.worldwhalers.com/index.htm

Sumofallwars:

Do you have any idea how expensive it is to import stuff? Do you under stand
Freshness? The Japanese already import a lot of stuff, and it cost them an arm and a leg
to get it. Do you know how much it costs to buy 1 gallon of gasoline in japan? its so
expensive *because of they have to import it* that regular joe's can not afford it. what
do you think about that?
When your making these "the Japanese have all sorts of other things to eat" what will
you say when the PETA people come to your favorite restaurant to close it down. When you
ask "but WHY!" the spit "You have all sorts of other things to eat" right on your face.
How will you react then?

When these whale wars peta people tell about the Japanese killing whales the
deliberately miss lead you to believing they are killing endangered whales when they are
only targeting species that are doing really well. As for the research part, they also
intentialy lead you into believing its just a big lie so they can go around killin whales.
From watching the series I firmly believe Paul and his crew believe that any big
aggriculture buisness is in it just for the killing, which they are not. They are in it
for the money *which is not a bad thing at all, we all need money and these corporate
types put a lot of time into their ideas and fully deserve to reap all the fruits of their
labors if that means millions of dollars in profits then fine* and this Whale meat is a
staple of Japanese diet, since the whales being harvested are not endangered I do not see
a problem with it at all. Its the same as fishing, just you get a lot more out of one good
catch than I ever do.

Thanks for reading,
Darren 69

P.S. Just so you all know I am a conservationist. I believe the wild animals must be
managed.
P.S.S. If you prescribe to the sea Shepards idea of total hands off approach to handling
nature and the problems it poses when people are thrown into the mix would simply put
people *and I mean more than a few here* at risk of plague, famine, disease and Natural
disasters that could have been avoided if only people were for Conservation. That in
itself is enough to turn me completely off to what ever the sea Shepard has to say.
P.S.S.S.If you don't like to hunt or fish then fine, more for me and my fellow out doors
enthusiasts. But at least support conservation. This idea *that emma9 has* that nature
is some how wiser than all the science in academia is astoundingly absurd. There is no
Intelligence behind the tendencies of Nature at all, guiding or other wise.
The only way to enshure the wild animals are around for your grand kids is to be
Conservationists not like this sea shepard crew.

I'm happy with this thread, so let's not get it locked >.<

"The world belongs to all living creatures, and as sentient, intelligent beings, I believe
we have an obligation to respect all other life forms. Just because animals cannot think
or talk like we do, doesn't mean they have less of a right to exist. "

Nice statement, Emma. I agree :)

UPDATE:
I was reading up on the current state of the show, and it turns out the crew of the SI is
currently under an international investigation for dangerous behavior, negligence, and a
slew of other allegations. I, for one, do not think two wrongs make a right, and hope the
crew of the SS receives punishment for the blatant crimes. I am also optimistic that the
current loopholes in international whaling regulations can be closed. Maybe I'm being too
optimistic; but I am of the opinion that an education and a voice is best weapon anyone
can have against any sort of affront to their (or others') rights. The money spent by the
SS organization this year could have gone a long way towards enlightening people
concerning this situation.

@Larry: AFAIK, the Japanese are harvesting species that are far from endangered and in
rather limited numbers (I'm not saying this is justified). One of the things that bothers
me most is the circumvention of existing treaties. I would equate this to drivers skirting
DUI checkpoints. In the area I live, law enforcement has to place them at underpasses so
that drivers have an opportunity to exit (therefore avoiding entrapment). People still
drive drunk, thought they get around enforcement. I'd be much happier if people just
didn't drive drunk in the first place :)

And you were right; I didn't miss much on the call :P

Wow just wow. you sir have enough stupid and ignorance for a small country. darren i
have to agree with emma on this one. find a nice busy high way and take the easy way
out. the way you think is just sooooo wrong. And the japs don't NEED to eat whale
they
have plenty of food they import. they do this becouse there is a market for it.

"Deer are pests on a farm, same as rats. Kill em all.

--- If I had to choose between killing deers and you going out of business, I would
choose the latter. Since you obviously do not care about other living beings, I will
extend the same treatment to you.


"Farming is MY JOB, it is my lively hood!"

--- I pray you lose your crops and you starve to death. It would make this world a
better place for all the innocent animals that have been living in your area long
before you were born, and will still be living there long after you're 6 feet
underground.


"Animals and Nature is nice to have around and all but I much prefer it behind a big
fence off some where where it wont bother my farm. Where I can go see it if I feel
like it, but it can not bother my farm. IE a Park or Preserve is where they should be
kept, not in my back yard!!!"

--- Animals and nature have been around for millenia. Then one forsaken day, you
came into this world and proclaim that the land is yours and all other life forms
should be moved somewhere else so it won't bother you? .. Just who the fuck do
you think you are?

It would please greatly, and I sincerely mean this, if your land gets confiscated and
you're being forcibly evicted and placed in internment camps. Have a taste of your
own medicine. Lets see if you have the same view of things then.


=====================================================


Back on topic .. don't get me wrong, as I fully support the fact that people need to
kill animals to feed themselves.

But what I can never stand are bastards who think the planet belongs to them, and
animals should be treated like crap. The world belongs to all living creatures, and as
sentient, intelligent beings, I believe we have an obligation to respect all other life
forms. Just because animals cannot think or talk like we do, doesn't mean they have
less of a right to exist.

Several weeks ago, I gave a stupid punk a bloody nose because he felt it was fun to
kick a pregnant cat in the stomach. When I see this kind of people, it makes me
wonder if some people have birdpoop for brains. And if only murder wasn't a crime, I
would love to club this darren69 bastard on the head and watch his brains spill.

One dead farmer is worth a 100 deers. When it comes to someone who shows a
blatant disregard and disrespect for other life forms, then I value the life of an
animal more compared to him.

You darren69, are a pest in my eyes, and I wouldn't even flinch if I see you getting
hit by a truck, lying bloodied on the road and need help. And I mean it with all my
heart.

@darren
You apparently look on the environment is a thing to be conquered with pests to be
eliminated. You might want to pick up an Ecology book sometime. Strange ideas in there
that we are part of the environment and that we actually depend on it. I'm not saying
you shouldn't do something about the deer in your crops, just that you should think before
you go into "pest" mode. Same for the other "pests" you mentioned.

@ OP
I've only seen a couple of episodes but:
-Can't say I support either one.
-The show makes them both look bad. The Japanese for flaunting international treaty.
The Sea Shepard because of the lack of skill and discipline at sea.
-Don't know
-I wish we could get a treaty that addressed overfishing and set aside more marine
reserves. I wouldn't mind whaling if it was done in a managed way rather than a couple of
countries skirting treaties they signed.
-The conference call was over a month back and anything you missed you've probably heard
about by now, this thread is still going. So, no.

As a Hunter and Fisherman I don't get where these people get their ideas. They always
seem to hold the animals in higher regard than people, why? *shrugs shoulders*

When I catch some fish I have a meal. Same as going to the grocery store. So what is
the big deal? In Japan there is not enough land for farming *some thing I know about
which is Farming* so they have to depend on the sea for food. You know the Japanese were
one of the first to develop cooking methods for sea weed? Why well its one of the things
they have in abundance.
You eat a lot of cow & chicken in the usa, that is because we have this wonderfully
flat ground in the middle of continental USA. It can grow just about ANY THING out there.
When you set up your home on a Island that is thin and mountanouse you are not going to
have Cattle land. You will have to rely on the sea. I tell you the Japanese eat things I
would have never thought would be edible in the least bit, but they do eat it and its
delicious too!!
Also they don't have a lot of Crude oil on Island so they are almost solely responsible
for heat less cooking, sushi any one?

When I used to go on salt water sport fishing trips the dolphins just made complete
pests of them selves. The dam things hang around oil rigs, fallow sport fishing boats and
when you hook into a fish its easy meat for them. You almost never get a fish in much more
than the head when ole flipper is out there. Them and sharks. Because of this behavior I
can see why fisher men used to just shoot sharks & dolphins all the time. They are pests
to those that live with the sea, same as the white tailed deer is nothing more than a pest
to us farmers. They move in and will eat the cattle's food either grain or hay, both of
which cost us an arm and a leg to buy.
Or if your a row crop farm good luck getting any of that grain in with the deer
around, they always rather eat your corn than look for acorns or what ever.
Hunters always wana send heat our way for our outlook on deer. Well to them deer are
this hardly understood animal that they are lucky to see let alone to kill one. They
always want cops and game wardens to come out and arrest us for doing any thing to keep
the deer numbers down. Well TO BAD!!! SO SAD!! I DONT WANA HEAR IT!! Deer are pests on a
farm, same as rats. Kill em all.
Farming is MY JOB, it is my lively hood! and I will be just scraping by if tha dang
deer eat all my row crops. They are vermen the size of small cows that hump like rabits.
VERY BAD!!!!
So I think this whole "Japs are in the wrong for killin them whales and Barbaric" is
just plain stupidity. I wont hear it. Its the only way they can bring in gobs of meat to
eat and is there closest thing to cattle. I say let em kill those whales and dolphins and
what ever else they think looks tasty while they are at it.
Animals and Nature is nice to have around and all but I much prefer it behind a big
fence off some where where it wont bother my farm. Where I can go see it if I feel like
it, but it can not bother my farm. IE a Park or Preserve is where they should be kept,
not in my back yard!!!

The sea shepherds are not using the right approach.

They try to act like pirates, ramming the other ship and throwing things onto it,
which can be thought of as assualt. The real way to deal with such a problem would
be to fine the ship a good sum of money. Just take a picture of the tags for the ship
and the incriminating evidence, send it to the government of the ship or some
wildlife protection agency, then let the politicians and lawyers take care of it.

The japanese are deffinently in the wrong and the Sea Shepherds are doing the
right thing, but in the wrong manner...........