@j "I make it simple for you:

- I am in a BB.
- A sub fires as full spread of torps. I manage to dodge ALL of them.
- The torps explode close enough to deal considerable damage.

So, who did fail here? Did I fail, because I managed to dodge all the torps? Or did the
sub fail, for missing with all its torps?"

You knew about that there could be sub near? You had escort or you asked for ASW
support before? You have enough bulge/bulkhead? You had HH on your BB and try
to used it to force enemy subs go to critical dive? What exact was your evading
maneuver - you stay between torps or you try to go to one side to avoid demage
from torps from another side?
Because if you not done every things what you can to deal with subs it is fault you
and fault your team...

*sigh*

That is not the issue. The issue is, that subs can sink stuff without having to aim
properly and actually hitting stuff.

I make it simple for you:

- I am in a BB.
- A sub fires as full spread of torps. I manage to dodge ALL of them.
- The torps explode close enough to deal considerable damage.

So, who did fail here? Did I fail, because I managed to dodge all the torps? Or did the
sub fail, for missing with all its torps?

I'll repeat myself: I have no problem with adjusting to subs, scanning the battlefield to
see where they're coming from, accepting that I am not going to be able to fight them
while they're submerged if I am not having HH onboard, etc. etc. That is all fine and
dandy. Where I draw the line is, when they don't actually have to hit me, to sink me.

PS: I am not going to elaborate this any further. By now my point should be clear enough
for anybody with an ounce of common sense and some reading comprehension.

I'll leave you now with this quote from Splid from the very first page, because it already
said everything there is to say about the whole subject:

"Anyone who thinks subs and ASW are not unbalanced is to be frank, a moron.

Subs are overpowered in a good many aspects, and to counter that SDE decided to make ASW
overpowered. In GB there is no team play (Congratulations still go out to SDE on that
one, you managed to create a "Team" gamemode that destroyed Team Play in this game) so
subs have little or no trouble waltzing up to the lines and destroying what they want at will.

Subs clearly require buffing in some areas and nerfing in others but as they stand, they
are unacceptably balanced."

@dj

have you ever been sunk by subs (splash if you want) if you done all things what
you can do to be prepared agains subs? I was never sunk when I was good
prepared... and it is the same in all cases...if you are not prepared agains opponent
BBs you will lose on your BB (for example you forgot scouts in 1v1 fight ;-) ), if you
are not prepared agains subs than you can expect that you will be sunk... subs are
part of the game...you can deal with them or you can lose...

as i am a ss user i can say if bb's are getting sunk by 1 torp then they should armour up
correctly, as to nerfing sub's if you nerf too much ppl will stop playing ss,as some
people stopped playing cv as some nations got nerfed to a point they where useless
.....IMO ppl are whinning because cant farm anymore

Way to keep missing the point.

Have you ever been sunk by shell impact splash alone? Never? Wow, wonder why that is...

Oh, and no sensible answer so:

"Why do most ships need to hit ships in order to do damage, while others don't?"

@dj

"Why do most ships need to hit ships in order to do damage, while others don't?"

Dj, you wasn큧 sunk by NEAR shell impact (not direct hit) ever? ;-)

"I'll say it again DJ, since you missed it:

Remove splash & duds and you'll see a LOT more BBs getting oneshotted by subs, I promise
you that."

When did I say that I have a problem with subs oneshotting BBs? I don't care about
oneshotting. A sub can oneshot me all day. If it manages to hit with its torps, that is.

"I'll be the first to admit I don't run BBs that often. I find them BORING. Yet when I do
use them, I hardly EVER get sunk by a sub. Why is that? Am I running 255 bulge? Nope, I
run 50 and no more than that. Do I spam HH all the time? Nope, I generally run AA or
supports on my T slots.

Reason I don't worry about subs is because I know them from having played each and every
one of them on a regular basis. I know what they can and cannot do, and as a result, I
know how to avoid them, and deal with them."

I neither get sunk by subs regularly, and I don't play them nearly as often as you do.

"DJ, you say that since you can't dodge sub torps or their splash, the subs must be OPed."

I said subs should have to aim and be rewarded for proper aiming as any other ship. I
never said I can't dodge sub torps. Don't know where you getting this from. Maybe you
think I'm noob or something.
Read carefully: "As long as I can dodge a full spread of torps, and still get heavily
damaged/sunk (without being hit, mind you), subs will not properly balanced against other
ships."

"So, because you can't do something that I can do, in lower level BBs I might add, there
must be something wrong with subs............ Can you not see how that sounds?"

Sounds like your lacking proper reading comprehension. And by now, I'm getting kinda
annoyed by this.



"Oh, and yes LJ, you know BB balance. You do not know sub balance. The two are not the same."

LJ has better understanding of balance than most people, including you.


PS: I am gonna quote this until I get a sensible answer:

"Why do most ships need to hit ships in order to do damage, while others don't?"

PPS: Bong, you can quote me all day, maybe someone will finally answer me, instead of
putting words in my mouth.

I hope you payed Fokker's rep costs :P Anyway nerf BBs buff subs.

Torps going in.


Ship going down.


Hell, I should've gotten a screenshot of the 3 torps that I didn't even need that
exploded after the ship was already sunk.

I'm pretty sure that's the second best salvo in the game, right behind Montana.

And, lest you think I need to lie to prove your point wrong:


Does this mean I get to be the most experienced IJN SS4 driver on the Kaiser server?

Subs need splash damage. When subs can carry as much ammo as BBs, can reload as fast as
BBs, can fire as far as BBs, and have shells that move as fast as BBs, then the splash
damage might need to be changed. There are a LOT of advantages other ships have in the
game -- including that shells, HHs, and DCs also have splash damage. In fact, the DC and
HH splash damage seem awfully high to me. SS torp splash damage balances out these other
factors. In addition, splash damage gives the harder hitting subs motivation to fire from
farther distances giving the target more opportunity to evade. It makes the game fun!