I guess Im gonna quote you again Djdeath because you seem to feel the same way as I do
about this.

"Just because there are counters, does not mean subs are balanced. If you people are OK
with poorly made new content, so be it.

However, I quote myself:

"As long as I can dodge a full spread of torps, and still get heavily damaged/sunk, subs
will not be properly balanced against other ships. Period."

As long as this is true, you're advocating for a state of balance, where a ship can sink
another ship from full health, without even hitting it. Which is absolutely and utterly
ridiculous. "

Smart subs dont even aim to hit a ship. I was on the opposite side of a fleetmate and
watched a sub engage his H44. The sub didnt aim to hit him, no. He aimed his SS4 torpedoes
to either side of the H44 making a V. The torpedoes all exploded pretty far away from the
H44 on either side which as far as I could tell was fully repped with full SD. Needless to
say it was quickly dead. The torps were so far away that Kita/TB torpedoes would not have
even scratched him.

Now tell me.... Where is the skill in that?

@ Gt

"You are confusing the idea of balance with the idea of game play.

Yes, the game is built on team work. You protect your flagship while sinking the
enemy flagship (the most dominant game). However, the game is still balanced
through the idea that higher level ships/sailors are better than lower level
ships/sailors.

You asserting that it is not the case because you are trying to make a different point
doesn't suddenly make it not true."

BB6 is still better than any SS4...or not? Because I don큧 think that main force in
Harbour tiles are subs instead BB5-6... Why?

And where is the problem if SS4 can sunk BB6? BB6 can be oneshoted by many other
ships if BB player are stupid...for example TW Moltke =P

Read my comment before flaming it Alex,

Also you would not make torps worthless, only to thos who dont use Bulge & 2nd if you
unerf the exp loss for using a sub more people would play subs even if they got less
attack & in due to more subs in game more people would play ASW... Win win for all

"for me and many of my friends it is teamwork based game not level based as you
said... "

You are confusing the idea of balance with the idea of game play.

Yes, the game is built on team work. You protect your flagship while sinking the enemy
flagship (the most dominant game). However, the game is still balanced through the
idea that higher level ships/sailors are better than lower level ships/sailors.

You asserting that it is not the case because you are trying to make a different point
doesn't suddenly make it not true.

"Creating an escort" is a ridiculous compromise for unbalanced content.

Why should a player be forced to create a second ship that cannot be used in all game
modes just to get a small benefit in an attempt to simply SPOT another ship?

Hey, with this argument, we could create stupidly unbalanced fighters and just tell CVs
to create an AA escort to deal with enemies that use those fighters.

lj: "If you count PHH, yes. But I laugh at normal HH in my sub. Besides, it is VERY
easy for HH to be avoided. Both ASW and Submarine gameplay is easy, boring and
one dimensional. My suggestions will make it skill based and more fun to play. Feel
free to go read the two large posts with suggestions in."

What IS NOT "easy, boring and one dimensional" lj?

I think it is only up to each players what is boring, one dimensional and easy for
them... I know realy huge numbers of players who enjoy playing on SS and not for
reason that it is easy as you said but reason is that they enjoy it...

In game modes where you can not use escort (for example FL, HA, ...) you can use
better teamwork to avoid your fear from subs...

I think that there is different view what Navyfield is...for me and many of my friends
it is teamwork based game not level based as you said... We enjoy most teamwork
instead farming everything what has lower level than our ships... And this is what I
enjoy for example in fleet league matches - there is every one ship important in
team and doesn큧 matter if it is BB4 with 120 lvl crew or low level ASW...because in
match we need work like team and we have to cooperate to success in match.
Sometime high level BBs need help from low level ships, sometimes it is vice versa...
And I like this teamwork in Navyfield and due to this I don큧 care about game modes
where is no teamwork...

Maybe it will be better to work more on game modes which will be based on
teamwork instead trying to "balance" everything in game... Because good teamwork
can easy beat some unbalances in game...

"My idea of game balance is not a biased view of giving BB's ASW qualities because SS and
ASW gameplay are one dimensional and boring. No matter how much you may not want
NavyFIELD to be an MMO, it is still in fact an MMO.

Aside from that, your post appears to be nothing more than "I lost the debate, so this is
me saving face for my ONF groupies."

Since I'm a good sport, here's a free tip. If you want your BB able to see subs with no
ASW in the area, then create an escort. It's not hard mate... In fact there might be a
tutorial around with pop-out pictures if you search for it."

>>> This just proves my point further. You have no idea how to balance games. I haven't
lost the debate, I've pointed out that you can't read. I know that BB's can run escorts in
SOME gametypes, but they can't in all. This is a level based game. Simple as. If you do not
understand that, then feel free to stop posting about something you know nothing about.


@SK_Bismarck

If you count PHH, yes. But I laugh at normal HH in my sub. Besides, it is VERY easy for
HH to be avoided. Both ASW and Submarine gameplay is easy, boring and one
dimensional. My suggestions will make it skill based and more fun to play. Feel free to go
read the two large posts with suggestions in.

I don't mind/complain when I get sunk by a sub, because I haven't brought HH, ignored it,
etc. That's my fault. However, if I manage to dodge all its torps, I want to be rewarded.
Instead, because of nuclear splash, the sub driver gets rewarded for missing.

BBs do not get rewarded for missing with all their shells, neither do AA ships, or CVs.

How would a CA feel, if he dodged a full load of DBs and get killed by splash?
How would a CV feel, if all his planes got shot down by an AA boat, that constantly keeps
missing?

Remove duds, nerf splash and adjust damage, number of torps and reload speed for subs. Is
it that much to ask?

PS: Never been sunk by a TW Moltke. ;)

@dj

Mate, what you do agains sub in your BB? Because if I큟 in BB and I have prepared
I dont remember if I was oneshoted by sub atleast 1 time...

Btw...watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-ne35OEuds

Will we nerf Moltke because it is able to oneshot 2 BBs in short time? Or maybe if it
is mistake on BB players side when they underrate my Moltke?
I think that problem with subs is the same...BB players underrate subs => are sunk
by subs...But it is not problem of OP subs but it is problem on BB player side because
they made mistakes...

Just because there are counters, does not mean subs are balanced. If you people are OK
with poorly made new content, so be it.

However, I quote myself:

"As long as I can dodge a full spread of torps, and still get heavily damaged/sunk, subs
will not be properly balanced against other ships. Period."

As long as this is true, you're advocating for a state of balance, where a ship can sink
another ship from full health, without even hitting it. Which is absolutely and utterly
ridiculous.