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Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
12. 31. 2013 07:53
 Recommend : 15
Telegraph
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As the World at War rooms are bb exclusive for the most part just forbid subs from ever entering, like Blitz.
If the general playerbase thinks World at War should remove the no submarine option, then recommend this thread. It is past the time for World At War to include submarine without discriminating.
War entails RISK, not Molly-Coddling surface ship players.
Yes I know that NavyField =/= Real Life and this game displays this situational fact everyday.
Recommend that the No Torp option be removed forever.
CV uses sonar so the argument "we can't see subs" or "we want to use escorts" does not stand. If you are afraid to sail out by yourself, then follow modern military protocol and stay near the carriers.
All that is required is minor behavioral modification and intelligence/strategy application on the part of bb drivers to remain near the sonar equipped surface vessels.
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Re : Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
01. 10. 2014 10:31
nyerkovic
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Originally Posted by Cracko
On the other hand Ny, saying "put a no torp option", "put a no torp option", "put a no torp option" made it happen. It's curious how some things "happen" and others "doesn't happen". If you want another example there you have what "happened" with that SS limit put on HAs. It looks like all "happens" in the same direction biasing the game each day more towards BB class and arcade-individualistic-monotasking-unidimensional game play, not only in WaW.
The fact that some things happen doesn't necessarily make it a good thing or the right thing to do. As far as your example, it happened because hard data evidence was provided that made GMs make that decision. It wasn't a simple "limit SS in HA", "limit SS in HA", "limit SS in HA" as you make it out to be.
The point in this thread is to remove the no torp option. I don't think removing the no torp option without addressing the underlying issues is the right thing to do and that is the point I'm trying to make in this discussion.
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Re : Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
01. 10. 2014 10:44
Cracko
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Originally Posted by nyerkovic
Here we see the problem... How do you expect teamwork against SS ships in WaW to happen when you are missing the element that aids in this particular area?
Wrong, wrong, wrong, in HAs rarelly fleets use ASW ships, its all BB/CV/SS and with proper teamwork SSs are not a danger at all. One team send SSs, the other SSs stay passive and BBs HHs make the rest of the job. Even people equip the CVs with sonar and HHs in the case more help is needed in the BB line. That's team work.
But people ACTUALLY team-work on HAs and that's because they are so pretty and funny to play. Because the goal is to WIN. In WaW the goal is different, is to GAIN EXP. So everyone is terriblily egoist and plays for itself, not for the team.
Solution and the real key of fixing not only the SS issue on WaW, the game in general => MAKE BOTH GOALS THE SAME.
That's the "underlying issue" Ny, the rest of the issues are very small compared with that.
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Re : Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
01. 10. 2014 11:00
nyerkovic
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Originally Posted by Cracko
Wrong, wrong, wrong, in HAs rarelly fleets use ASW ships, its all BB/CV/SS and with proper teamwork SSs are not a danger at all. One team send SSs, the other SSs stay passive and BBs HHs make the rest of the job. Even people equip the CVs with sonar in the case more help is needed in the BB line. That's team work.
But people ACTUALLY team-work on HAs and that's because they are so pretty and funny to play. Because the goal is to WIN. In WaW the goal is different, is to GAIN EXP. So everyone is terriblily egoist.
Solution and the real key of fixing not only WaW, the game in general => MAKE BOTH GOALS THE SAME.
That's the "underlying issue" Ny, the rest of the issues are very small compared with that.
HA is a special thing on its own, with a lot of different variables that are not present in normal gameplay (starting from training of the team to the selection of what ships will be in the team). It has caps also which is a huge difference on how ships perform in battle and their capabilities compared to WaW, so again, you can't completely compare that scenario with the other. HA is the max expression of teamplay only reachable with a lot of work, not the norm. I share with you the feeling the egoist nature of normal game modes, but that is also one of the reasons why today you can't compare the HA scenario with what happens here. One is a 15 min battle (at most) and the other is a 2hr team project from the start which will never be comparable no matter what we do. Leaving that aside, I do agree with you that Teamwork is the vital part of this and aiding in a propper teamwork scenario is the underlying issue here. Now going back to the original request in this thread, removing the No Torp option without addressing the clear issues that prevent teamwork will not aid in its creation. Teamwork won't magically happen just because the main capital ships are together in the same room, you need other elements, specially since you are playing with a group of people and a group of ships that got organized 10 seconds before in the room split and not a week before (at least) to battle in HA.
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Re : Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
01. 11. 2014 04:54
Meastro444
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Teamwork in WaW will never happen. It will become worse when you remove the no torp option. Everyone will just stay back and do nothing, because you can't spot an SS in WaW. CVs hardly ever use sonar man.
Until there is a viable counter to SS's in WaW the no torp should stay.
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Re : Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
01. 11. 2014 12:33
JohnnyQuick
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Originally Posted by Meastro444
Teamwork in WaW will never happen. It will become worse when you remove the no torp option. Everyone will just stay back and do nothing, because you can't spot an SS in WaW. CVs hardly ever use sonar man.
Until there is a viable counter to SS's in WaW the no torp should stay.
The "counter" was outlined clearly. You would think that people would read complete posts, and as pointed out earlier, players will have to change their style of play and actually work together. I have played FleetWar and and the set up would work well in World At War. Granted FleetWar is not Harbor Assault yet teamwork in it's current state on this game is ruinous at best. Almost as if the attention span is about 5 milliseconds in most battles. I know I have tried to be a team player (in battle) here yet other players seem counter-productive to that idea. If players in World At War battlerooms would make it a habit to set up similarly the way Fleet Wars do, I am sure there would be no problem in removing the No Torp option. Recommended
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Re : Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
01. 11. 2014 12:36
Ultra_Dog
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When I have the chance to join a WaW game in my SS, I find that if I simply communicate with my team, protect against intruding enemy subs (Yes, I do that!)...and provide excellent scouting vision for my team mates behind me, then we can win. A few scattering torps will retreat an entire flotilla of BBs. If my team mates see that retreat they can advance. ...But if they are lame and still trying to shoot some dumb scout down;l we're not going to capitalize on the opportunity. As a host of a WaW; just having equal numbers of BBs and CVs is not enough. Equal SS should be considered. Don't split with only 1 sub opposing...you will lose if he's not on your side.
As for the general suggestion.. the outcome of most of my SS engagements in WaW is minimal because its over so quickly, so the NO TORP OPTION doesn't really play into my desire to play there. I earn more in GB in both my CV and SS anyway.
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Re : Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
01. 11. 2014 13:09
Ruza_CZ
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Originally Posted by bergy
Actually i would like to see a no torp option for every single game mode we have
And I want NO BERGY ROOM option, or NO Shell.
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Re : Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
01. 11. 2014 15:53
yuyo
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Just NO. leave this option in peace! if u wish play with sub on WAW make ur own room and dont disable that option.
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Re : Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
01. 12. 2014 02:16
Stabbyy2
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i agree with it entirely it should not be an option....people work hard to get subs just like bb's they should have the same rights
instead why dont we have no torps at all for blitz?(heaven for bid people learn how to shoot)
one thing ive learned... post 3 year break and present 3 year break
BB's will always whine about SS's because..
1:they dont wanna put buldge on because it slows em down
2: they claim they are unbalanced and unable to be seen(but have a stupidly high increased dmg effect espcially when submerged from asw)
3 : "they can stay under to long"(even though by all rights they should never surface...)
4: torps reload/dmg to much(yet a bb5-6 salvo isint to much for the new bb1?)
pretty much what it comes down to is good ole double standards...
its ok for me but not ok for you
and just to point out....buldge is pure dedicated armor against torps....no other armor really has that luxury there is no "anti bomb" or "anti shell" armor you have to pick and choose what you want your armor to be for... except buldge
so in all actaully what you look at things stacked against SS's here a short list
1: can only stay submerged portion of battle
2: can be spotted by ff/dd/ cl/cv(with sonarman)
3: has massive dmg taken from ASW if submerged
4: has multiple dedicated weapons against it
5: has rather limited ammo in comparssion to BB/CV
6: has to expose self to refill air
7: loses speed when submrged
8: other submarines
9: cannot survive on surface as dmg is increased like 500% to them
10: has dedicated armor to repell against it
11: has to crit dive to avoid ASW(thus damaging its self)
12: slower then most other ships..on surface
BB's short list
1: no vision(classic im blind!!! fAil CVs!!)
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Re : Remove the No Torp option from World At War rooms
01. 12. 2014 03:40
AC16051
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Originally Posted by PictWarrior1
I've been trying to suggest a solution for a long time now. Allow escorts in WaW and subs will be balanced. Yes the CV can carry sonar (although it shouldn't) but how many CVs are up on the front line with the BBs?
The only recs on this thread are from those sub players that love shooting fish in a barrel and don't see anything wrong it. Well let's turn the tables shall we? Let's say that HH can shoot at BB range and all ships have sonar that can see all the way across the screen. Then make a room that subs can play in but BBs can't. BB players would understand why they aren't welcome, and I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't hear anything from SS drivers in that room about discrimination against BBs.
Agreed!!
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