"HH Range needs to be decreased to the range of an average sub long range
torpedo so subs have a chance against the swarm of ASW. "
-Khamal113

what swarm of asw? where is this swarm at? And decreasing the range of HH is
unnecessary and argues against physics. HH's were mortars. We all know that an
object with an explosive charge to launch it through the air will travel much further
and much faster than an object moving through water by thermal engine and
propeller. It's all about density.

More to the point, HH's at long range have such terrible spread that one would think
you'd rather be shot at from long range than short range. You'd take a mere
fraction of the damage and then you could go in for the kill while the incompetent
asw ship reloads.

Currently the exp given to sub is alright, as it is sufficient to deter people from
'spamming submarines' in gb2. I think most people would get what i mean, as many would
have subs but not many people play it as their 'main ship'. Likewise for ASW.

Buff SS1 allowing it to have more air. As most people just skip the ss1 for various
reasons such as lack of air etc.

Implementation of 'failed to fire torpedo' as we know in ww2 many torpedoes failed to fire
at the crucial moment. This adds another feature another than 'dud torpedoes'.
( For the developers, failed to fire can be counted as torpedo fired. However no torpedo
is actually fired. Reload will commence after the 'failed to fire' )


========= Ideas that wouldn't make it================
Implementation of subs needing to use the attack periscope.
Without the attack periscope being used while submerged sight ranged is cut by 50% of the
current base ( ignoring sonar man's contribution to this first ).
When the attack periscope is up. The sub can be seen by BBs/CVs and can be locked on by
TBS and can be fired at by BBs (however the surface area is extremely small, as theres
only the attack peri).

The SUB would then retract their attack periscopes when they get even closer to the BBs (
in this case it reduces the sight range,) ( *in actual fact from what i know reality subs
do not even 'see' their target when they commence torping of a target, they do it by
revision of bearings and hearing for impacts. )
and commence torping.

Implementation of subs using manual SS fcs
As we all know we are currently using a fixed fcs for subs. However what if we are able to
control the depth which the torpedoes goes? (Subtopic:US manual for mark 14 torpedoes once
taught the silent service to fire torpedoes at a depth of 25 feet. However many
experienced torpedo-man / captains do know that the famous mark 14 dives in depth even
more then set. Hence 10 feet standard is commonly used.)
And what if a torpedo depth of 10 feet is able to deal 2% more damage to a CV.
And depth of 13 feet does 40% less damage as it hits the bulge directly, however the ss
user has other ideas as how to 'tire out the bb'

====================================
Anyways i have a tell for people. Duds are torpedoes that were fired at a range and were
suppose to explain upon contact with a targeted ship's hull. But failed to.
Running to deep is when a torpedo goes below the kneel of the targeted ship. Hence totally
missing the ship.


I had seen many extremely good contributions on this thread, as well as thankful to tnf
for starting it. My thought is that maybe a moderator should pick and compile selective
suggestions from this thread and make a locked sticky. So testers/mods/devs alike can
quicklook at the sticky for immediate information about whats the most important stuff to
alter and etc.

My 2 cents

cuz this is for sub disscusion and suggestions, then NZRogue takes the most
approved ideas to Devs and Dev's decide if they do anything.....

eatherways it keeps suggestion forum clean from daily sub suggestions :)

cheers
Megadone

with only 10 recc's why the heck is this post stickied?

@snow_ball

I'm not sure if I understand what ya saying...BUT if I do....

ODing(OHing) in sub DOES render your sonar useless...if you OH in Sub you woun't
see other underwater subs.

cheers
Megadone

i dont know if this has been added, but it just came to me...

when subs are underwater, their sonar should not work IF they OD their engines
while underwater. Now the sonar going out also includes reduicing vision to just
arround the sub(unless there is a team scout near). If they run at normal speed
underwater it should work like normal.

This way it's just like surface ships... when surface ships od their engines, their
sonar goes out, it should be the same with subs. it's only fair.

this can make subbing more difficult, but yet again not... just don't OD the sub
engines.

@whukid

"(The part of subs being able to stay under. My copy/paste function isn't working (stupid
firefox glitches))"

Also, in real life, battles lasted for days, not 15 minutes. Plus, the higher tier subs
move way to quickly and that also counters the low air time.

"(The part of SS1 needing a speed buff)"

I'm not sure about now, but I remember my SS1s going 19/21 (or something like that) and
22/24, not 12. I don't think they need a speed buff (1 or 2 more knots onto base speed
might not be THAT bad), but more, they need an air buff because of recent nerfs. I had no
problems with SS1 and some of the SS2; it's the SS3 and SS4 that primarily ruin the balance.

"(Part about splash damage)"

HAH. No way unless you want BB splash to be buffed to the point of OPedness. A full monty
salvo splashing as close as it can only gives about 200-400 damage total IIRC. (You can
rep that much damage in the time it takes him to reload anyways)

"(Part about hitting different ship parts)"

I would love to see that implemented (for all ships), but it would probably bug heavily
and lag the room even more (I personally don't lag, but I've seen it firsthand before).
Would be fantastic if we had it though.

"- Splash damage and proximity torpedoes should stay if splash damage from
battleship guns do. "You shouldnt get EXP for what you cant hit""

Apart from a huge load of disagreement on the rest of your post this particular sentence
caught my attention due to the , how to put it , "lolwut-ness" . How can you even compare
BB shells splash damage with torp splash?! Ok lets do this: Bring the torp splash right at
lvl with BB shells splash , aka: worthless , pointless and (almost)non-existent.

It's just when i see such arguments i know how desperate some people are at finding
excuses to make SS's totally overpowered. But that's just me.

I believe that the subs should have a large increase in air time, as Alstien pointed
out, and SS1 needs a speed boost. I agree with nerfed DCs and HHs, as well as
keeping proximity torps. As hard as TNF tried to keep this a non-BB whine fest, a few
players seem hell-bent on completely eliminating all the submarine's advantages.
The idea was to create some adveristy in the game, and your failure to compensate
for it does not mean we have to hear about it. My logic is:
- In reality, subs could stay under for hours. The average SS1 can only stay under
for a few minutes. This should be increased because the whole idea is to strike at
the capital ships, not make it half way across the map only to run out of air. Im not
saying make the sub stay submerged for an entire game, but please increase the air
time.
- SS1s need a speed boost because ,honestly, twelve knots just isnt cutting it. Keep
in mind, we arent stalking an unsuspecting merchant ship, but a well-armed, fast,
shipe of the line.
- DCs need a nerf not because of their effectiveness on subs, but the fact that you
can sink a battleship at half health with around 6 of them. (I have seen it done
twice, to be exact, and i dont know the exact bulge the poor player had.)
- Premium HHs need to go; Forking out an extra few dollars shouldnt mean you have
the edge against surface ships and subs alike. Frankly, its just not fair, especially in
an enviornment where most players dont spend a single dime. Premium ships arent
included in this because they dont provide any huge bonuses.
- Splash damage and proximity torpedoes should stay if splash damage from
battleship guns do. "You shouldnt get EXP for what you cant hit"
- Increase torpedo damage for certain areas of the ship. If you hit the forward
portion, there is a chance that you could explode the magazine. If you hit the rear,
the engine should take a speed nerf. I understand that this is incredibly hard to put
into the game, but giving it a thought would be nice.
** I do have generous amounts of experience in all three ship types [including
premium ships]. None of this is biased information or aimed at a particular player(s).
***

I think subs are fine. Fixed.