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  • New Nations French/Italian/Russian

    11. 19. 2006 20:23

Rengokuy
Please Restickey!

Granted by Angus725 *dated March 24th, 2011*

---------------------------I was right-------------------------

Trees (to large to post, copy paste into your browser)
*ignore French and Italian DD lines, they are being changed
France - http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i211/Rengokuy/FrenchTree.jpg
Italy - http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i211/Rengokuy/ItalyTree.jpg
Russia - http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i211/Rengokuy/RussiaTree.jpg

*Updating ships to match the trees
Edit - Richelieu remodel to Jean Bart, not Gascagone
Edit - Bearn remodel to Joffre (as they have same capacity, one just trades
armor/armament
for speed)

-for people who want to know the capabilities of the guns, nearly all are found on
this website http://www.navweaps.com/


(boring intro section, scroll past to get to the ships and pretty pictures)
Short and Sweet, the French and Italians had good strong navies during WWII.
Both would be workable into the current game, ideally as their own nation, using
their own crews.

The French Navy would be a speedy one at that. Range would be rather long,
either equal to or a bit farther than most german guns at level. French DD's will be
some of the best in game, each with high damaging, fast firing guns. CL's and CA's
would be fast hard hitters that don't present much of a target, but they will be very
vulnrable to shell fire as they didn't mount much armor, a problem remidied in the
BB's. The French carriers would all be rather slow, their aircraft typical until higher
levels. BB's would all be above average, with long firing guns. (don't let the PBB
Dunkerque fool you, they had much better range than that)
Richelieu's guns had a longer range than the Iowa's.
All battleships would be capable of defending themselves from aircraft as well.

As for the Italian Navy, it would be a nation of Cruisers and AA guns. Heavy and Light
Cruisers would be the strongest of any nation in the game. DD's would be a trick to
use. All would have few mounts (usually only 2 or 3) but remain the same size as
other nations DD's. BB's would be typical until higher levels when they improve
drastically. Italian Carriers would be tend to have a little less plane space than their
counterparts, but be able to equip much heavier armament. Italian guns in general
had very long ranges, even over german guns. This was achieved at the grave price
of short barrel lives. The FCS system was very effective, tight salvos are to be
expected. Armor would be rated in giving about 20% stronger than the USN armor.

The Russian navy. Well, they will be very interesting indeed. Right from the beginning
they get very fast destroyers with considerably heavy armament. Russian cruisers
will be a bit more difficult to use. Their armament usually lighter than ships of the
same weight, their only advantages being tight salvos and small profiles. The
Russian battleships will be, for lack of better words, terrors to fight. The early on
ones based of the Gangut class, they are small targets with a lot of guns, the only
disadvantage being lack of AA defense, a problem remedied at the BB4 and 5 level,
the ships here built in practice with current US ones (iowa and montana). Even their
aircraft carriers are well armed, each making good speed and decent capacity. As for
their aircrafts, figters will be good, but bombs and torpedoes relativily weak.
  Index

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples (incomplete)

    12. 13. 2006 10:12

Shrike
Normandie-Niemen were French pilots sent to aid the Soviet VVS (air force). Stalin
awarded them the "Niemen" tag after their performance at the Battle of the Niemen
River.

They initially trained on Yak-7s (older than the Yak-1), then were assigned Yak-1s,
then Yak-9Ds and finally Yak-3s (newest of the Yak series, contrary to the
numbering).

The Yak-3 was fast and very maneuverable at low altitude. Luftwaffe pilots were
actually advised to avoid combat with them below 5000m (I think it was 5000, might
have been a bit lower... hard to check sources at work).

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples (incomplete)

    12. 13. 2006 10:02

Rengokuy
Unfortunally Aircraft (both on Navyfield and in General) is something I am lacking in
expierence. (One book can only give you so much information) On that note, that is rather
intreasting that the Russians gave arcraft to the French. Fortunally, my little book
mentions all those (except for the Yak-3, but in the article of the Yak-1, it is
mentioned) So I trust what you have said and will put up their specifications immedietly.

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples (incomplete)

    12. 13. 2006 09:52

Shrike
Fighter aircraft are simple if you use land-base planes.

Morane-Saulnier M.S. 406
Dewoitine D. 520
Yakovlev Yak-3

As Tier 1, 2, and 3. If you want a change, the Curtiss Hawk 75 can replace one.

The M.S. 406 was generally eclipsed by German aviation at the beginning of the war
(Bf-109E).

The D. 520 was about equivalent in performance to the Bf-109E.

The Yak-3 was a very high performance late-war Soviet fighter. It was used by the
Normandie-Niemen group on the Eastern Front. The USSR actually awarded the
group the Order of the Red Banner and the Order of Alexander Nevsky and gave the
unit's Yak-3 fighters to France after the war.

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples (incomplete)

    12. 13. 2006 09:40

Rengokuy
nikolawistsj - Thank you for the information on the aircraft (my little blue book did have
some of this, but not all) I will try to put in specifications as soon as I can (I should
be studying for my final...) I for one don't have a CV (my best ship is an M-pro....) But
If they use land-based aircraft on the carriers, then finding sutiable planes just got so
much easier. And thanks for the website (glanced at it) when I have more time, I will
gladly look at it more in depth. (i am kinda neglection the Italians, but I think getting
one fleet to 100% would be good right now. I think we all know what happens when ones
resourses are spread too thin)

Shrike - Sorry, I posted the chart up along with with ship tree, so hopefully, that will
settle any confusion. I will get around to undating my data, but for now I need to study
(sorry)

Just a note - The French did have torpedo bomber floatplanes. I can safely say that the
Commadant Testle is a good choice for the CV line. (woo hoo)

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples (incomplete)

    12. 12. 2006 21:29

Shrike
"As for BB4/5s for France and Italy, I would say that as BB4, Alsace would work. For
Italy, a remod of Littorio (BB3), probably Roma, could perfectly fit the BB4 role. And
even enlarged versions of the Alsace and Romas would work as BB5s...it does for
the british with LionI-LionII so...why not?"

There were actually plans for two Lion designs. One enlarging the KGV to fit into the
Washington Naval Treaty escalator clause, and one in 1945 not fit to any treaties.
Apparently there is also a 3rd that is even larger than that one. Those two correspond to
Lion I and Lion II in NavyField. The 3rd design would be "Lion III" at a much heavier
displacement.

"PD: in your ship treeline image for the MarineNavale Richelieu has a quite wrong R-
slot count ;). Richelieu had only 2 R mounts, both in the front (as dunkerke)."

As mentioned in my post, Richelieu has 2 fore R slots for the quadruple 380mm. And 3 aft
R slots for the three triple 155mm. The same way Nelson has 3 fore R slots for the main
battery and 6 aft R slots for the secondary 6" twins that she carried. Jean Bart
continues in that pattern. Gascogne does not, it folds the 155mm triples in with the
100mm twin AA. If you take the graphical tree with the table of ship specifications from
my post it makes sense.

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples (incomplete)

    12. 12. 2006 21:14

nikolawistsj
Hi rengokuy

Magnific idea. It would be great for NF itself too. Adding french and italian navies
would attract a lot of new customers, for sure.


Not sure if you already know it. Main plane to be used in Italian CVs would've been a
navalized version of the Regianne Re.2001, a fighter bomber of the Regia
Aeronautica, that in its navalized version could load a 250kg bomb or even a
lightweight torpedo.

I see no problem in putting land planes on a NF carrier. After all we have planes as
the Fw190 which were never navalized... So I would say:

Fighter tier 1: Fiat G.50
DB tier 1: Re.2000
No TBer in tier 1.

Fighter tier 2: Re.2001
DB Tier 2: Re.2001 DB
TB tier 2: Re.2001 TB.

Fighter tier 3: Re.2005 or Fiat G.55
DB Tier3: Junkers Ju87R (there were some in use by the italians, they called
it "Picchiatello"
no TB tier 3.


Strong points should be similar to those in the German CVs. Good fighters, good
divebombers and somewhat lacking (only one model) TBers.

The italian line could add some really interesting what-if ships, including
panzerschiffe-like ships and some Battlecruiser designs. Look at this page to know
some of them http://www.bobhenneman.info/ItalyHome.htm

As for BB4/5s for France and Italy, I would say that as BB4, Alsace would work. For
Italy, a remod of Littorio (BB3), probably Roma, could perfectly fit the BB4 role. And
even enlarged versions of the Alsace and Romas would work as BB5s...it does for
the british with LionI-LionII so...why not?


The idea is great. As you say, it will hardly happen in a near future, but as a long-
time future prospect, I hope NF developers give it some serious thought. French and
Italian navies would be great to have here (along an increased sailor limit to 75 so
people could have more than 2 nations in a single account ;)).


PD: in your ship treeline image for the MarineNavale Richelieu has a quite wrong R-
slot count ;). Richelieu had only 2 R mounts, both in the front (as dunkerke).

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples (incomplete)

    12. 12. 2006 17:03

Bloodyneck92
... pulls out all those neuts, begins leveling some +15's to lvl 30 and some gunners to 50....

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples (incomplete)

    12. 12. 2006 14:42

Rengokuy
*adding Aircraft

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples (incomplete)

    12. 12. 2006 12:20

Rengokuy
Terriles - I know all about the foca class. But I see no reson to bring it up, submarines
will never be in this game. Moreover, the Foca was a minelaying submarine?

Shrkie - That is cool (perhaps I should get to adding some more in) ^.^ (im so lazy) Thank
you very much.

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples (incomplete)

    12. 12. 2006 11:22

Shrike
Here's a cleaner version for you, Rengo.

Graphical Tree - www.geocities.com/shrikedsc/NF_MN_tree.png
Ship listing - www.geocities.com/shrikedsc/NF_MN_ships.htm

Some notes:

1 - Ignore gun slot sizes. Gun slot count is correct though (improved over the last
one)

2 - Jeanne d'Arc left out of the tree as CL 0.5 like Emden, Omaha, Yubari, and
Emerald.

3 - De Grasse shown with original plan (slightly larger La Galissonniere) and remodel
to her configuration when completed in the 1950s (maybe it was 1954 that she was
commissioned).

4 - T slots for CAs and larger do not represent a torpedo battery even if it carried
one.

5 - Normandie and Lyon are shown without T-slots, as they had no heavy AA
according to their plans (heavy AA being 75mm or larger).

6 - Dunkerque has no rear R-slot. This was to group the aft quad 6.1" (155mm) with
the port and starboard dual 6.1".

7 - Richelieu is presented as completed, the dual 6.1" (155mm) were removed.
Gascogne was planned to be a Richelieu with 1 turret front and 1 back rather than 2
front. Jean Bart is shown in her completed configuration from the 1950s (1952 I
believe) which includes six dual 100mm on either side.

8 - Richelieu and Jean Bart have their 6.1" (155mm) as the rear R-slots. Gascogne
and Alsace have their 6.1" (155mm) have them included with their heavy AA
(100mm) much like Yamato does.
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