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  • New Nations French/Italian/Russian

    11. 19. 2006 20:23

Rengokuy
Please Restickey!

Granted by Angus725 *dated March 24th, 2011*

---------------------------I was right-------------------------

Trees (to large to post, copy paste into your browser)
*ignore French and Italian DD lines, they are being changed
France - http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i211/Rengokuy/FrenchTree.jpg
Italy - http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i211/Rengokuy/ItalyTree.jpg
Russia - http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i211/Rengokuy/RussiaTree.jpg

*Updating ships to match the trees
Edit - Richelieu remodel to Jean Bart, not Gascagone
Edit - Bearn remodel to Joffre (as they have same capacity, one just trades
armor/armament
for speed)

-for people who want to know the capabilities of the guns, nearly all are found on
this website http://www.navweaps.com/


(boring intro section, scroll past to get to the ships and pretty pictures)
Short and Sweet, the French and Italians had good strong navies during WWII.
Both would be workable into the current game, ideally as their own nation, using
their own crews.

The French Navy would be a speedy one at that. Range would be rather long,
either equal to or a bit farther than most german guns at level. French DD's will be
some of the best in game, each with high damaging, fast firing guns. CL's and CA's
would be fast hard hitters that don't present much of a target, but they will be very
vulnrable to shell fire as they didn't mount much armor, a problem remidied in the
BB's. The French carriers would all be rather slow, their aircraft typical until higher
levels. BB's would all be above average, with long firing guns. (don't let the PBB
Dunkerque fool you, they had much better range than that)
Richelieu's guns had a longer range than the Iowa's.
All battleships would be capable of defending themselves from aircraft as well.

As for the Italian Navy, it would be a nation of Cruisers and AA guns. Heavy and Light
Cruisers would be the strongest of any nation in the game. DD's would be a trick to
use. All would have few mounts (usually only 2 or 3) but remain the same size as
other nations DD's. BB's would be typical until higher levels when they improve
drastically. Italian Carriers would be tend to have a little less plane space than their
counterparts, but be able to equip much heavier armament. Italian guns in general
had very long ranges, even over german guns. This was achieved at the grave price
of short barrel lives. The FCS system was very effective, tight salvos are to be
expected. Armor would be rated in giving about 20% stronger than the USN armor.

The Russian navy. Well, they will be very interesting indeed. Right from the beginning
they get very fast destroyers with considerably heavy armament. Russian cruisers
will be a bit more difficult to use. Their armament usually lighter than ships of the
same weight, their only advantages being tight salvos and small profiles. The
Russian battleships will be, for lack of better words, terrors to fight. The early on
ones based of the Gangut class, they are small targets with a lot of guns, the only
disadvantage being lack of AA defense, a problem remedied at the BB4 and 5 level,
the ships here built in practice with current US ones (iowa and montana). Even their
aircraft carriers are well armed, each making good speed and decent capacity. As for
their aircrafts, figters will be good, but bombs and torpedoes relativily weak.
  Index

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples

    11. 20. 2006 17:55

Rengokuy
Hmmm, "but construction of the Montana -class battleship by Philadelphia Navy Yard,
Philadelphia, Pa., was canceled 21 July 1943, before her keel was laid" that would seem to
clarify a but. My encyclopedia (Tony Gibbons "Ships") mentions nothing of drawing only
ships, so I dont know that much about the Joffre. Frecnch CV's have been hard to find
because of numerous "if it had happened" sites, that are basicaly stories using ships at
the time in sitations that never happened. I also find many dead link in the Haze grey
sight, also very frustrating.

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples

    11. 20. 2006 17:42

Shrike
My edition of Conway's 1922-1946 shows the five Montanas with no dates for their "Laid
Down" column. www.hazegray.org agrees with that.

Conway's also has some info on the Joffre and Painleve (sister ship, not laid down),
including a line drawing of the starboard side. It asserts that the Joffre's air group
would be 25 torpedo bombers and 15 fighters.

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples

    11. 20. 2006 17:15

Rengokuy
Yes, thank you for that photo. Aircraft carriers were not equiped with 16in guns,
especially a triple. (The Ise and Hyuga are Battleships not carriers) As for the Montana
Class, I have heard mixed opinions on if they were ever laid down or not....

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples

    11. 20. 2006 17:00

Shrike
Killer12 is off in some fantasy land...

NONE of the Montanas were ever laid down, according to my information.

USS Montana (BB-67) and USS Ohio (BB-68) were SCHEDULED to be laid down, but suspended
prior to them actually being laid down. Both were to be build in Philadelphia Navy Yard.
USS Maine and USS New Hampshire were to have been built at New York Navy Yard but they
were never even scheduled to be laid down. USS Louisiana was to be built at Norfolk Navy
Yard and also was not scheduled.

The Midway class were contemporary designs with the Montana, so they had similar machinery
arrangement, but the Midway as NOT a converted Montana hull. They were ground-up designed
as carriers. They also NEVER carried a 16" gun.

Visit this link and see the photo of USS Midway at Hampton Roads in 1945
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/41.htm
No 16" gun!

Two of the Midway carriers were built by Newport News, the 3rd at New York Navy Yard. The
three planned but with no assigned names were also assigned to Newport News. None were
assigned to San Diego.

As for the Lexington confusion...

USS Lexington was designed as a battlecruiser (CC-1). The Washington Naval Treaty sealed
their fate. Lexington and Saratoga (CC-3) were completed as the Lexington class carriers
(CV-2 and CV-3). USS Lexington (CV-2) was sunk at the Battle of the Coral Sea after fires
from Japanese air attack rekindled after efforts to save her seemed to be successful.

USS Yorktown (CV-5) was the lead ship of the Yorktown class carriers (sisters Enterprise
CV-6, and Hornet CV-8). USS Yorktown was sunk by a Japanese submarine during damage
control efforts following Japanese air attacks at the Battle of Midway.

When the Essex class was being built, several ships were renamed to commemorate war
losses. USS Yorktown (CV-10), USS Hornet (CV-12), USS Lexington (CV-16), and USS Wasp
(CV-18) were all to commemorate their sunked namesakes. CV-10, CV-12 and CV-16 are all
still afloat as museums along with their sister USS Intrepid (CV-11).

Maybe that's where the inter-relation confusion comes.

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples

    11. 20. 2006 16:42

Rengokuy
Good news, I have been able to find more about the Joffre Class!!! (I know youv'e all been
waiting)

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples

    11. 20. 2006 15:58

Rengokuy
Killer12, I don't understand your point. Which Lexington are you talking about the 1925
that sunk at Coral Sea, or the 1942 Lenington of the Essex Class?

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples

    11. 20. 2006 15:45

Rengokuy
Oh, I know all about cost/time effectiveness. And I also realize that right now they are
jsut making the game run smoothly. Finding information on these ships is not hard for me,
I have more than enough refrences. I could list out repair ships, hospital ships, troop
transports, even an actual landing ship for each nation instead of the same model APA with
a differnt name. My intentions are puerly informational, to say in the future, this is
what we may get.

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples

    11. 20. 2006 15:45

Killer12
a montana class battleship was laid down in san diego. but after midway they made
decision to turn it into a carier starting with CV 41 USS Midway has a hull of a
battleship and turns quite fast for a carier. well that should be cv5 cause lexington
as u say was related to yorktown so should be a remodel. o ya btw the USS
midway starting years had a triplet 16 up front and was taken off in 1950s :)

well unless u want a hella buggy NF this aint gunna happen any tmie soon

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples

    11. 20. 2006 15:41

Rengokuy
Carrier- Progetto Rota (1925) 10000t 30knots
Armament- 18 102mm, 16 120mm. Armor-? 16 Aircraft
Still broken spanish, as far as I can tell, this is all it was. If it was used or not, i
dont know. Was able to tell the one line, it bears a resemblance to the HMS Hermes...

  • Re : French/Italian Ship Examples

    11. 20. 2006 15:38

Rogerborg
I'm going to skip reading whatever you just wrote, because really, honestly, I just feel
sorry for you. It's so sad to see all this drive and optimism about to get slowly crushed
under the massive inertia of reality. I was there about a year ago.

Tell you what, let's talk again in 6 months or so, when you've had a chance to find out
what the situation is regarding available development resources.
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