If you get hit by 6 torpedoes (or however many were in the video) you shouldn't have much chance to survive.. I figure at that point your destroyers and other anti-sub ships aren't doing their jobs.

But that's me.

Are SS overpowered. It certainly depends upon whether you are in the SS or the ship being pursued by the SS.

As a point of issue, let's start with the basics:

1) This is a game. Not real life. Every part, from engine speed to armor and guns, to torpedo splash and shell damage are ficticious creations of NF. Every part can be increased or decreased at NF whim and design.

2) Perception is in the eye of the beholder. From each player's perspective, there are pros and cons of each ship type and their resultant effects.

3) The arguments about ship levels and abilities/weaknesses are part of the design process in building the ships, but are not part of the tactics used by individual players. Players take advantage of the strengths of their specific ship's capabilities, trying to minimize the weaknesses for exposure to the enemy.

Now I am going to address the main disputes of "overpowered SS".

When the SS4 came out, with 18K+ DP, it was a submersible beast. It could take several shots from ships and continue on. It was not overpowered, but over armoured.

NF did not change the speed or power of its weapons, only its ability to withstand a hit. The change to affect the damage weakened the SS1/SS2 line too much, not so much the for SS3/SS4. The overkill on HH has not been corrected, including the surface damage (Mandel sinking BB5s with HH). There are several solutions to that problem that NF has not addressed.

Most SS are too weak to finish a game. NF cuts the air supply down to 3 minutes, so that all SS will run out of air after crossing into enemy territory. Why such a short period. It is an effective death sentence when a sub surfaces. If a sub is hit and loses DP to about 1/3, then it automatically surfaces. Sealing its fate to the enemy. Most subs do not carry repairmen.

The torpedoes on subs are the most powerful, but have the shortest distance. There is a complaint about reloading torps takes too long. That may be a relevant argument, but gun reloading could be a relevant argument also. This is a game and the reload issue is an NF design and seems reasonable and fair to me.

Subs also burn DP when in critical dive, so much so that after two or three short CDs, the sub can be so damaged as to surface and return for repairs. So a damaged sub in CD will burn even more and disable the shipo even more greatly. A surface ship can have DP down to 3 and still be a threat to the enemy at gun range distances. A sub that is wounded is useless unless some ship sails in front of its tubes like a simpleton. Wounded subs are minimal threat. A wounded Montana is still a BB5 with 4 huge guns capable of destroying anything in its range.

How about this to change (mess) things:

1) Reduce DP on subs to 1000 or less.
2) Decrease underwater speed to 20 knots or less
3) Eliminate all torpedo splash damage
4) Eliminate all dud or under-ship torpedoes.

but also change the following:

1) Reduce ship armor to factory specifications only.
2) Reduce ship speed to factory specifications only. Engineer increases OH time only.
3) Increase Sub air time to 15 minutes
4) Eliminate all critical dive DP penalty on subs.
5) Add Repair, Restore, Seaman slots on subs.
6) Eliminate free HH, PHH only on Cl/DD/FF
7) HH / PHH fuse increased, surface impact damage = AA dud
7) Sonar restricted to ships with a specific FCS (CL/DD/FF only)


Would you still call Subs overpowered if you were sunk with these new conditions?

giving subs 15 minute submergence time would mean they will stay under for the whole game.... insted around 5 minutes and decreasing the refresh time so they wont surface pop a smoke and submerge when smoke is gone an stay under aroudn 2-3 minutes .....removing the hh damage completely from surface ships = subs could just surface and take no damage however could decrease the damage surfaced so pca's wont 1shot bb3s etc lol....



and quote from heatrr: Likewise, if you get hit by 9 x 18" shells at near point blank, any SS shouldn't have much chance to survive....but that's just me. =.=


its 9x20" shell wich apperantly does 52k damage averange with max hit however only did 16k on the sub

Level 77 Ship = 4,452,450 exp

Level 120 ship = 46,784,550 exp

Overpowered? Yes.

vs surface ships would be an easy solution tho... do the same as with mines remove the dirrect hit where mines cant be droped ontop of a ship with causing damage (hedgehogs)

As it is, sub surface for 10 sec, pop a smoke, then dive back for 40 sec-1 min depending on their planesman,

Then they pop back up, pop a smoke again etc etc.

You don't balance at level, but end-game level, otherwise it makes wtf OP ships, like SS4.

Throw in a lvl 120 support crew on them, and they wipe the floor with anything, rep damage, take massive beating (somewhat fixed, but still quite OP normally. I've seen SS4 take a kaiser full salvo at point blank, and still in the green) and to top it off, they can kill ship with splash damage.

If the BB doesnt even stand a chance to dodge, its kinda stupid.

If you totally dodge, but still lose all bulge and 1/3rd of SD, its stupid.


The change I see are more along the way off :


-Buff air time
-Nerf air reload
-Nerf torp reload (keep damage) to around 30 second. Basically thats still fixing the DPS, but subs keep the big surprise punch.
-Remove splash
-remove crit dive damage penalty, but have the air go down a LOT faster in crit dive to prevent sub just waiting in ambush all game.
-Nerf HH. Basically, DC should be more effective than HH altough at an higher risk for the ship using them.


Simply remove the current balance that say BB= no chance vs subs and subs = no chance vs PHH.


*Edited with change I'd make*