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Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 07. 2011 16:03
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Re : Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 08. 2011 11:20
Cracko
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Originally Posted by ljsevern
Level 77 Ship = 4,452,450 exp
Level 120 ship = 46,784,550 exp
Overpowered? Yes.
Not irrelevant at all. But look: Level 12 ship = 8,000 exp Level 77 Ship = 4,452,450 exp DDs are clearly overpowered too, u can get a lvl12 ship in 30 minutes and start to kill ships much higher lvl than yours. I think this game must be broken or something, everything is overpowered XD
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Re : Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 08. 2011 11:31
nyerkovic
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Originally Posted by Cracko
Originally Posted by ljsevern
Level 77 Ship = 4,452,450 exp
Level 120 ship = 46,784,550 exp
Overpowered? Yes.
Not irrelevant at all. But look: Level 12 ship = 8,000 exp Level 77 Ship = 4,452,450 exp DDs are clearly overpowered too, u can get a lvl12 ship in 30 minutes and start to kill ships much higher lvl than yours. I think this game must be broken or something, everything is overpowered XD
Not everything is black and white here. You are talking about DDs with HH or DC... If SS class gets balanced, their counter-measures should get balanced too. Right now, DC and HH are in line with the unbalanced nature of SS... it doesn't mean either of them are OK. In a perfect world, SS4 should be in line with a BB4... right now, they aren't even close... starting with the 10+lvl gap between them. Also, for everyone to know, this is being discussed in the Test Server section... if anyone is going to be discussing there, please be open-minded and try to understand other people's point of views. I understand people defending SS, I drive SS ships too, but please understand they will change now that they are introducing higher tier SS. It has been asked and it will be worked on. Please be a part of the discussion in the Test Server with an open mind and considering that some things MUST change. People who want everything to stay the same won't be happy with the results of the discussion. Be a part of it and propose the changes you would want to see... hear other peoples opinions and work on the changes, please don't waste energy on a fight to keep everything as it is now.
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Re : Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 08. 2011 11:46
SK_Bismarck
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Originally Posted by nyerkovic
Not everything is black and white here. You are talking about DDs with HH or DC...
If SS class gets balanced, their counter-measures should get balanced too. Right now, DC and HH are in line with the unbalanced nature of SS... it doesn't mean either of them are OK.
In a perfect world, SS4 should be in line with a BB4... right now, they aren't even close... starting with the 10+lvl gap between them.
Also, this is being discussed in the Test Server section... if you are going to be discussing there, please be open-minded and try to understand other people's point of views.
I understand people defending SS, I drive SS ships too, but please understand they will change now that they are introducing higher tier SS. It has been asked and it will be worked on.
Please be a part of the discussion in the Test Server with an open mind and considering that some things MUST change. People who want everything to stay the same won't be happy with the results of the discussion. Be a part of it and propose the changes you would want to see... hear other peoples opinions and work on the changes, please don't waste energy on a fight to keep everything as it is now.
In ideal world I would like to see SS5 farm whole team like it is possible with BB5...I´m sure that SS5 will be somewhere near to BB4s effect on game maximum...actual SS4 has same effect on battle like BB3-4...
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Re : Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 08. 2011 12:06
SylverXI
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True it's not black and white.
1) This video shows a SS4 at it's best. (what BB6 will just stop and eat torps like that?)
2) The IJN SS4 is the SS4 with the highest damage output of ALL the SS.
3) What happend to the duds?
4) What if the BB had HH on instead of AA?
5) CV's can put sonar and would be able to detect a sub before it can strike. Not to mention put HH on and go allot faster than a SS(exept maybe SN CV's).
If you put a QV vs Kaizer in a 1vs1 in the hands of two equally good players? Which of the two will win the majority of the time?
Easy, QV offcourse...
Yet, in a line battle this changes, why is that?
The same idea can be aplied to SS. In a teamplay enviorment, SS are not as effective as people might think.
SS are not overpowered, they may need to be fixed to fit better in the game. Right now I agree that they don't fit the way most people would like it to.
SS's is anti-BB, thus in a 1vs1 should be able to reign supreme.
CV's are BB's bitches.
support are ati-ss killers and anti-air class.
BB are al around good class.
All I see here is rock(BB) whinning about paper(SS) being too overpowered.
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Re : Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 08. 2011 12:08
Esoom
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You can't just balance ships based on the big picture of the battle. You have to look at combat on the individual level also. Only looking at one perspective is narrow minded.
Let us imagine an FF called the "win button". Only 1 is allowed per team. The "win button" can be pressed by these ships once per battle and it randomly sinks a ship on the other team. If you look at the battle as a whole, this ship is balanced. On the individual level it is obviously broken.
Subs and ASW are somewhat balanced from the big picture of the battle perspective, but horribly balanced on the individual level. Balance on the individual level should come down to mostly skill level of the players with a small effect from the ship type. Currently the sub/ASW balance is more based on ship class than skill, just like rock-paper-scissors. RPS is a well balanced game, but it has no depth or basis on skill unless you think cheating and meta-gaming count. How much fun is it to be the rock in RPS?
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Re : Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 08. 2011 12:08
ljsevern
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Originally Posted by Ultra_Dog
Originally Posted by ljsevern
Level 77 Ship = 4,452,450 exp
Level 120 ship = 46,784,550 exp
Overpowered? Yes.
IRRELEVANT ARGUMENT. DISMISSED.
Shut up. Come up with an actual balance argument. We all know you only play SS, and you are pretty bad at that too.
Originally Posted by Cracko
Originally Posted by ljsevern
Level 77 Ship = 4,452,450 exp
Level 120 ship = 46,784,550 exp
Overpowered? Yes.
Not irrelevant at all. But look: Level 12 ship = 8,000 exp Level 77 Ship = 4,452,450 exp DDs are clearly overpowered too, u can get a lvl12 ship in 30 minutes and start to kill ships much higher lvl than yours. I think this game must be broken or something, everything is overpowered XD
Feel free to quote where I have said ASW is fine. I have always said ASW and SS's need changing at the same time. Furthermore, a difference of 4,444,450 exp is far less than the difference between 77 and 120.
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Re : Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 08. 2011 12:12
aingeal
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Originally Posted by Esoom
You can't just balance ships based on the big picture of the battle. You have to look at combat on the individual level also. Only looking at one perspective is narrow minded.
Let us imagine an FF called the "win button". Only 1 is allowed per team. The "win button" can be pressed by these ships once per battle and it randomly sinks a ship on the other team. If you look at the battle as a whole, this ship is balanced. On the individual level it is obviously broken.
I loled :)
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Re : Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 08. 2011 12:37
SK_Bismarck
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Originally Posted by ljsevern
Furthermore, a difference of 4,444,450 exp is far less than the difference between 77 and 120.
Statistics is nice...you can use it as you want... lvl 12 DD vs lvl 77 SS = ship with 556x less experience can easily destroy SS4 lvl 77 SS vs lvl 120 BB = ship with 10,5x less experience can destroy BB6
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Re : Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 08. 2011 12:41
superjugy
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Originally Posted by SylverXI
True it's not black and white.
1) This video shows a SS4 at it's best. (what BB6 will just stop and eat torps like that?)
2) The IJN SS4 is the SS4 with the highest damage output of ALL the SS.
3) What happend to the duds?
4) What if the BB had HH on instead of AA?
5) CV's can put sonar and would be able to detect a sub before it can strike. Not to mention put HH on and go allot faster than a SS(exept maybe SN CV's).
If you put a QV vs Kaizer in a 1vs1 in the hands of two equally good players? Which of the two will win the majority of the time?
Easy, QV offcourse...
Yet, in a line battle this changes, why is that?
The same idea can be aplied to SS. In a teamplay enviorment, SS are not as effective as people might think.
SS are not overpowered, they may need to be fixed to fit better in the game. Right now I agree that they don't fit the way most people would like it to.
SS's is anti-BB, thus in a 1vs1 should be able to reign supreme.
CV's are BB's bitches.
support are ati-ss killers and anti-air class.
BB are al around good class.
All I see here is rock(BB) whinning about paper(SS) being too overpowered.
i agree, this has to stay. i know NF=/=RL but subs in WWII were surprise attackers that if done correctly, they would pwn the other ship inevitably. unless they were escorted with ASW ships which would pwn the sub to oblivion. i think its the nature of SS. i agree with the proposal of more air, more reload time, same damage, to make them by a surprise attack ship. also the crit dive dive idea of removing damage but increasing air needed seems good. and i would make them more easier to sink. and really guys, rely on teamwork, if BB6 is getting pwned, well, get ASW ships around you. you can't be invincible. why nobody complained of Kita launching 100 torps in less than a minute. (well lots complained actually but it was not nerfed....except for exp which ruined SS and TB exp). i agree it needs balancing, but i am more pro "rock scissor paper" style than pure level style. BB5 and 6 just nuke everything on sight. yes they have disserved it, but still, why ruin the game of other players? they all whine "oh, im a BB6 player and should pwn everythnig below my level" that just no fun. if that's the case, then bring back normal rroms, and let the BB6s play between them, and let the low level ships play in peace. then you wont have to worry about subs. maybe they'll play SS wars i don't know.
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Re : Ijn SS4 Test......
08. 08. 2011 12:43
superjugy
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Originally Posted by aingeal
Originally Posted by Esoom
You can't just balance ships based on the big picture of the battle. You have to look at combat on the individual level also. Only looking at one perspective is narrow minded.
Let us imagine an FF called the "win button". Only 1 is allowed per team. The "win button" can be pressed by these ships once per battle and it randomly sinks a ship on the other team. If you look at the battle as a whole, this ship is balanced. On the individual level it is obviously broken.
I loled :)
me too. XD
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