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  • Let the Test Team Balance Subs

    09. 01. 2011 16:41

Recommend : 24

ljsevern

As above. Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

Otherwise, players will flat out refuse to play and the game will die within months.

SS4's are already competitive in HA game modes (which have nearly all 120 ships apart from Submarines).

Any further buff is just going to further alienate all non submarine ships;

The SS's, while being counters to BB's, shouldn't still be an auto win.

They should have their levels adjusted for their tier.

They should have their power adjusted for their tier.

They should have their playstyle changed from Glass Orbital Cannons to a skill based hit and run ship, designed to harass the enemy from behind their lines. 

 

  • Re : Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

    09. 03. 2011 05:58


nyerkovic
Multiple posts were hidden due to one person flaming and others quoting it.

This discussion is heated, but interesting and there are no flames yet.
Please let's keep it like this, clean and discussing ideas.

  • Re : Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

    09. 03. 2011 09:07


ozzy0
Originally Posted by ljsevern


First of all, the SS5's will be better than the SS4's. That is a given.

The SS4's are ALREADY overpowered as it is.

Are you saying that submarines should be able to beat both submarines and carriers, while being at a lower level?

Furthermore, Subs can avoid ALL HH and DC; It takes just over 2 seconds to crit dive, while the HH detonation timer is just over 3 seconds.

Furthermore, bulge does very little against submarine torps. It was tested. The damage of the torps is just way too high. The fact that an IJN SS4 cripple shots a QV with belt just crazy.

Furthermore, relying on escorts that randomly cross allies, fictory out of the battle line, have hugely poor aim and are not allowed in all game modes is just wrong.

some coments on your points LJ

1 ss5 shut be better then the 4 its the next ship in line( if OP then nerve if not leve it alone)
u have ss u say anny above lvl 100 thats where the crew won't fit and u have to ghost to play

2 not all ss4 are OP only the ijn(8torp) and km (troxy) the rest are/have bad torps bad boats
the ijn is the bb killer and the km the anti asw/ss

3 the ss5 shud be at lvl 95/100.preferebly at 100+

4 all ss can crit dive dc even when unther speed and OH
but hh when unther speed it takes time to slow the boat down
and ritcharts test was on a parkt ss make a test wher the ss is onther way and on OH
it will take more time to crit then when its parkt

5 thats wy its a bb killer and if its the test i think it is was that test wason a QV that was
parkt and at the max range of the ss so even the duds will explode at end run
try one where the QV moves it will be alot harder to 1 shot then

6 escorts fail on anny boat exept for cv's
but the game needs to be about teamplay
insted all we have is players rushing out in dd'/ff and getting shot by bb's
befor the firts 2 min of the game are done
ss that have to figth ss and while doing so get hh's on there head from the team ending
up getting damaged/killd (let ss vs ss fight and if yours dies then hh)
and then there are cv's who wont scout and only divebomb/ torpbomb
and not even letting the plains stay over the ememy line if there are done bombing
to provide site those plains usely get shot down on the return trip so u lose them enny way

and than there is 1 ss that got thru and is the sole scout for your team
but he won't get anny kills becos the bb can see and shoot all its targets

this is a skill lvl game and some one being a lvl 120 hall of famer
dos not make thim anny more skill full than anny noob in a blitz
work together and stand a bether then 50% chance of winning
be the lone wolf and die fast its your choice

  • Re : Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

    09. 03. 2011 10:53


ljsevern
Originally Posted by ozzy0

Originally Posted by ljsevern


First of all, the SS5's will be better than the SS4's. That is a given.

The SS4's are ALREADY overpowered as it is.

Are you saying that submarines should be able to beat both submarines and carriers, while being at a lower level?

Furthermore, Subs can avoid ALL HH and DC; It takes just over 2 seconds to crit dive, while the HH detonation timer is just over 3 seconds.

Furthermore, bulge does very little against submarine torps. It was tested. The damage of the torps is just way too high. The fact that an IJN SS4 cripple shots a QV with belt just crazy.

Furthermore, relying on escorts that randomly cross allies, fictory out of the battle line, have hugely poor aim and are not allowed in all game modes is just wrong.

some coments on your points LJ

1 ss5 shut be better then the 4 its the next ship in line( if OP then nerve if not leve it alone)
u have ss u say anny above lvl 100 thats where the crew won't fit and u have to ghost to play

2 not all ss4 are OP only the ijn(8torp) and km (troxy) the rest are/have bad torps bad boats
the ijn is the bb killer and the km the anti asw/ss

3 the ss5 shud be at lvl 95/100.preferebly at 100+

4 all ss can crit dive dc even when unther speed and OH
but hh when unther speed it takes time to slow the boat down
and ritcharts test was on a parkt ss make a test wher the ss is onther way and on OH
it will take more time to crit then when its parkt

5 thats wy its a bb killer and if its the test i think it is was that test wason a QV that was
parkt and at the max range of the ss so even the duds will explode at end run
try one where the QV moves it will be alot harder to 1 shot then

6 escorts fail on anny boat exept for cv's
but the game needs to be about teamplay
insted all we have is players rushing out in dd'/ff and getting shot by bb's
befor the firts 2 min of the game are done
ss that have to figth ss and while doing so get hh's on there head from the team ending
up getting damaged/killd (let ss vs ss fight and if yours dies then hh)
and then there are cv's who wont scout and only divebomb/ torpbomb
and not even letting the plains stay over the ememy line if there are done bombing
to provide site those plains usely get shot down on the return trip so u lose them enny way

and than there is 1 ss that got thru and is the sole scout for your team
but he won't get anny kills becos the bb can see and shoot all its targets

this is a skill lvl game and some one being a lvl 120 hall of famer
dos not make thim anny more skill full than anny noob in a blitz
work together and stand a bether then 50% chance of winning
be the lone wolf and die fast its your choice


1) I agree SS5 should be better than SS4. But not better than the current SS4's, they should all be rebalanced. And you can fit high level crews on submarines, we can adjust displacements.

2) I disagree, I take all my SS4's out in a HA and kill plenty of BB6/CV6.

3) Agreed, at 100+

4) Actually, Richardphat tested it. It avoids HH

5) Yes, its a BB killer, but not an auto win ship. They should be a hit and run ship designed to harass BB's that are unsupported. I would like to see on nation have a sonar advantage over the others, and one nation be harder to detect on sonar (like some sort of signature radius). Also remember, the insane splash damage needs to be removed.

6) That is why we talk about Fleet Wars/League/HA and not GB.

7) I would like to see some nations have better sonar than others, and a decrease in overall sub sight range, with just an intermittant blinking sonar.

8) It is a level based game, and a Level 120 ship should beat a level 77 ship with equal skill involved.

  • Re : Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

    09. 03. 2011 10:54


ljsevern
Also, I am liking this constructive discussion we are having here :)

  • Re : Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

    09. 03. 2011 13:02


aingeal
what's the time difference between static crit diving and full OH crit diving? Did Richard checked that out?

We could balance it so a sub rushing full speed toward an ASW can't avoid HH if the hit the water before he starts diving, promote careful cruising with ASW ship nearby.

  • Re : Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

    09. 04. 2011 03:16


ljsevern
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5upTdYK69Yk

  • Re : Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

    09. 04. 2011 04:13


ozzy0
wel i lookt at the test its all at ss that ar stopt and not moving
a moving ss takes longet to critdive
also the ss knows the hh are commnig and
from what direction it wil be comming
and in this test he wil have this hand on the i buton

now the law hier in the netherlands states a 3 sec gap of open space
between cars on the highway at 120 km speeds
according to study it take an avarige person 0. 5 sec to react
to a slowing car in front of hin and 0.5 sec to start braking

a ss player who is moving to a target
will have his hand nead the f,v,c,x,z and spacebar and not near the i
so wil need the 0.5 of a sec to react and then 0.5 to hit the i
taking this in to acount and the time for the moving ss to crit dive
and u got your selfs a counflip

  • Re : Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

    09. 04. 2011 05:46


jokojoko
new tier SS5 has been long due, it should be released when SDE is ready to do so.
anyway, by the look of the specs, they are more PSS than anything else.

SS should be treated as a full line, SS1 to SS6, and balanced accordingly (some serious work involved).
one good thing would be to lift the whole line upwards, SS1 starting later, being just at the limit to play a couple of blitzkrieg. the current SS4, renamed SS5, could be around 103 (BB line) or 97 (CV line), provided there would still be a PSS (the new SS5 ?) and an SS6 to come.
i am not the first nor the only one to offer this change as part of the solution.
the pseudo argument of an "OP lvl 74 ship" would slowly fade away.

sub drivers are already at a disadvantage with the torps XP nerf, and the current displacements which force them to skim their crews.
they want to be part of the game with their ships.
they would probably happily engage in attacks against heavily protected convoys, if they were given a chance. most of them love trying to evade DCs. they would probably like more challenges, and more rewards.

on a side note, it would be adviseable to balance the testers' team as well, opening it to some of the most serious and moderate sub players, and controlling some of the sub haters.

just suggestions,
cheers
+++

  • Re : Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

    09. 04. 2011 07:41


ljsevern
Originally Posted by jokojoko

new tier SS5 has been long due, it should be released when SDE is ready to do so.
anyway, by the look of the specs, they are more PSS than anything else.

SS should be treated as a full line, SS1 to SS6, and balanced accordingly (some serious work involved).
one good thing would be to lift the whole line upwards, SS1 starting later, being just at the limit to play a couple of blitzkrieg. the current SS4, renamed SS5, could be around 103 (BB line) or 97 (CV line), provided there would still be a PSS (the new SS5 ?) and an SS6 to come.
i am not the first nor the only one to offer this change as part of the solution.
the pseudo argument of an "OP lvl 74 ship" would slowly fade away.

sub drivers are already at a disadvantage with the torps XP nerf, and the current displacements which force them to skim their crews.
they want to be part of the game with their ships.
they would probably happily engage in attacks against heavily protected convoys, if they were given a chance. most of them love trying to evade DCs. they would probably like more challenges, and more rewards.

on a side note, it would be adviseable to balance the testers' team as well, opening it to some of the most serious and moderate sub players, and controlling some of the sub haters.

just suggestions,
cheers
+++


I do agree SS should be treated as a full line; However, when there was no BB5/6 or CV5/6 out, the BB4's weren't as strong as T6 ships now. So you can't do things like that.

The SS4's right now are still far far better than T5 ships, and the actual gameplay is flawed itself. There have been a number of buffs and nerfs suggested in other threads about that

The torp exp nerf is something that should be removed, and the displacements again will be fixed as part of the balance.

And furthermore, the test team is balanced like that. If people on the test forums say something that is unfair and wrong to be done with subs, it will not be implemented.

  • Re : Do not release SS5's until SS Balance by the Test Team

    09. 04. 2011 07:51


joshmon999
My argument has always been that the current SS4 capabilities could be moved rght up to the SS6 and even out the rest below. The biggest issue with SS is crew displacement and exp nerf at high lvls due to ship lvl .

ss1 lvl 45
ss2 lvl 60
ss3 lvl 75
ss4 lvl 90
ss5 lvl 105
ss6 lvl 115-120

that would fix the current xp nerf involved with disparate ship /bo lvl. A double whammy with the torp xp nerf.

Without changing anything else at all, this would change the dynamic greatly, or at least, people would lose their cherished lvl equivalence argument, since it would be same same. T6 vs T6.

Oh, and speaking of OP content, bring back the 6.75" Z99 ^^ I miss crushing BB1-3 with my DD for mad xp.

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